Producers Role

[Travis]

We all know that the record producer of today pretty much totally determines the "sound" of what comes out of the studio. How much of the Raspberries studio product was the band and how much was Jimmy Ienner responsible for the sound?

[Guest]

I bet there was very little production.Plug it up and let it go.Thats how it sounds to me very raw. I do like a raw sound.

Most of the stuff today is so layered it just sounds like record company processed genre.

Hit Record sounds like there was probably some splicing.

[darlene]

Ienner loved Raspberries' sound *and* their attitude. I can't imagine him trying to engineer it or even mess around with it. My thought is that he just wanted to capture it.

--D

[Tony Cartmill]

But remember they had much trouble in the studio trying to capture that Raspberries sound on record...You know the story of how GATW almost didn't make the cut because they couldn't get the right mix for it. Jimmy and the boys were racking their brains in the early days...

Technology makes it easier these days.

[pierson]

if u listen back to the 4 albums there's a pretty clear progression sonically... although I'd say the drum sound on "Side 3" (especially "Tonight") is the most impressive... still, something like "Overnight Sensation" is a production masterpiece and a great realization of the band and Jimmy's powers... Quite the peak if u had to choose one...

Also, (and Eric would probably know this best), since the band was a "new" band on a major label for their debut, the production and engineering had to be more in the hands of Jimmy & the engineers (even though it sounds less "produced" than the others) and the same probably goes for "Fresh" since it was done so shortly after they broke...

after that it makes sense that Jimmy & the band grew more comfortable around each other (not too many bands go 4-for-4 with a producer) and the band was able to have more input in the process (especially Eric)...

[pierson]

Technology makes it easier these days.

not so true... technology actually makes it harder as more musicians and producers lose sight of the basics as many faux-type replacements and the absence of tape change the dynamics

[raspberrywine]

Right on Pierson. Proof is in the pudding, there were wonderful recordings in the 50s, 60s, and 70s and the limited technology didn't hinder their

creation somehow. Maybe people needed to be more creative and organic in the past. Organic, in so far as you had to think about the environment and the space more. I imagine there's a "naturalness"

that has gone out of some of it. I always think of Joe Meek recording Telstar with the Tornados in an upstairs apartment over a shop in 1962. Pretty neat recording and effects for so little technology.

But IMHO, what's the sense of having 124 digital tracks of completely noise less perfection if the end result and product is an Ashley Simpson or Fifty Cent recording?? Four tracks would suffice.

Sometimes the breadth of the artistic statement and quality of song simply trancends a mediocre recording, and what's so bad with that? Lots of beautiful songs, and hits, and been thoroughly loved tho' they were perhaps mediocre recordings technically. I think that of some of the Raspberries material and Ienners work. I dont know if enhanced clarity actually benefits or detracts from "Go All the Way." Hard to say.

Our world puts too much emphasis on technical perfection, whether building missles or recording pop. I think its overated myself. No one wants a nasty recording ofcourse, but give me Motown, EMI, Sinatra, Duetsch Gramaphone recordings from many years ago compared to many souless and cold recordings today.

[Tony Cartmill]

If that's true, Then someone did a crappy job mixing the first 2 Raspberries albums. Hardly any bass frequencies and Bonfanti sounds like he's playing a toy drum set half the time. it made me think he was just an average drummer till I saw some concert footage and the LA live performance.

I thought it was just crappy early 70's recording equipment.

[raspberrywine]

I hear you TC, and thats what I meant above, tremendous material sometimes with an average recording or mixing. "Fresh" was a big improvement.

But my point is that I actually like the sorta mono-type recording vibe of "Go All the Way'" though that's obviously not the case. It's got a mono wall-of-sound vibe that is attractive even though you know Jim and the bass werent well mixed or recorded perhaps. The ultimate point being that a wonderful tune can transcend a fair recording. This was also true of Thomas Edison's original talkie recording of "Mary Had a Little Lamb". An important recording but rather poor quality. Tremendous hip hop potential though.

[Tony Cartmill]

I'll sample, errr steal, errr smoke crack to that!

[darlene]

I adore all of the albums, even if the production wasn't perfect, because I adore the band, and they recorded exactly the way they played live. The production of Starting Over *is* fantastic, but the second batch of Raspberries were a different band with a different sound, and we always forget that. I adored *that* Raspberries also, but it was different.

Production aside, both bands and all albums stand on their own as masterpieces. Like human beings, each album is individual--they all have their own quirks, flaws and shining moments-- but each is totally unique. That's what I always loved about Raspberries--they were never static, but always evolving. A *very* dynamic band.

And they still are. I can't wait to hear the *next* album, and you can bet that, whatever it is like, it will be produced up to the band's stnndards.

--Darlene

[Tony Cartmill]

The glass is definitely half FULL of Lemonade today!

...And a little bit of gin?

[hosskratz]

When the Beatles recorded Sgt Peppers album, it was done on an unheard of thing, a 4 track recording. The album is a true masterpiece. One bad thing about all this digital and multitrack recordings today, is that it can sometimes sound artificial. In this day of modelling amps, guitars and keyboards, sometimes the real thing is the best. Old tube amps bring in unbelievable amounts of money, and if I was to see Eric do a solo concert, I would love to see a spotlight shining on a "real" baby grand piano, and watch the maestro himself sit down and play it.

[Eric Carmen]

Jimmy Ienner, Shelly Yakus , Wally, Dave, Jim and I (and Scott and Michael) were all youngsters just starting our careers. We worked hard, we had a lot of fun, we learned, we got better. Do I love the sound of those records? Nope. Would they be better with today's technology? Maybe. Did they have their own kind of magic? You bet'cha! ec

[danmichel]

I think that technology fueled many of the changes in music that led to Rock 'N Roll...When you listen to some of the early recordings of Les Paul...with and without Mary Ford...You can hear a big leap from what came before...Because the sounds he captured just weren't possible until Les invented the technology to make it happen...Those songs may sound like just more oldies from way back when to kids listening today...But back then in the late 40's and early 50's it must have sounded like music from outer space...

There were so many walls to be broken down then...So many new things to try...And although there will always be new tech in music...The changes come slower now...And aren't quite so earthshaking as they were in the early days...When Les Paul and his contemporaries were writing a whole new book on how music could be made and recorded.

[raspberrywine]

Yes but the four track was used extensively at least through '67 so thats about 15+ years it lasted as a main technology with literally hundreds of thousands of recordings using one form of it or another. Some of those Les Paul recordings still sound quite crisp. You can hear noise in the spaces but still some great recordings. Point being it was an invention sufficient to create a tremendous number of quality recordings. I think we have a culture that just assumes they need the phone that can play DVDs etc. without ever questioning it. People are always intrigued and attracted by new do-dads. Its like the first ape man walking out of the forest and staring up at the sun in amazement. That amazement seems to be hard wired but I think people should question more whether the next high tech. deal actually makes better music or,in a larger sense, improves their lives as they assume/

[julesberry]

I miss the LP over the CD..............

[Tony Cartmill]

I think vocal tracks have sounded great since the 1940's. It's the instrument blends that have been spotty until the mid to late 70's. Then everything seems to mix pretty well.

[raspberrywine]

good point Tony, all the single microphones on entire groups of instruments.

[darlene]

Thanks for the insight, Eric. Those albums *are* magic and that's what make them priceless and irreplaceable to all of us. They capture the essence of Raspberries' spirit,(something that most recordings are hard-pressed to do) and that's very precious indeed.

--Darlene

[Eric Carmen]

dan, you are so right about the changes in recording technology and their impact on music. When you think about it, The Beatles were riding the crest of the technological revolution of recording going first from two track to four (Sgt Pepper) then to eight, sixteen and twenty-four. They had the kind of unlimited time restraints and money that only huge success can buy. They could sit in the studio for hours and just experiment. Couple that with the genius of Sir George Martin and the incredible songwriting talent of John and Paul and that's an explosive recipe for creativity. I have thirty-two tracks of digital recording capability in my home office (which is where we've been working on the live stuff). If I'd have had access to this stuff when I was 19, no one would have seen me for a year. ec

[Poor4Life]

I saw Paul demonstrate this technique on the recent PBS special. He used the original 4 track that The Beatles used at Abbey Road. He randomly played drums for one track, built a rhythm guitar track on track 2, and so forth. I was fascinated, when I go to a concert the sound board is one of the first things I'm drawn to.

Jeff