I'm tired of playing games

[seattlesteve]

Marv,

I think we're saying the identical thing. For others, it isn't so much as sitting back and trying to compile the ideal fan concert, but realistically, considering the business end, what is it going to take to get the boys on the road at all. Presently, it probably won't happen

A pure Raspberries concert as we know is phenomenol, but may not ever happen again outside of Cleveland. If they tour with 2 or 3 others on the nostalgia circuit the playlist will be drastically cut, probably by 2/3rd.

If the Raspberries double bill with Eric Carmen,

I think we'd all hear more music that we want. Also it might serve to rehearse others for EC's sophisticated solo arrangements for his future legacy show sometime at Severance.

I'm good with anything but I think the combo has the best chance of you guys who haven't seen either live, to have one last chance.

Why book the Raspberries with America, Cheap Trick, or The Knack, when you already have Eric's piano, a talented band, and his song library already there?

Could Eric personally hold up on such a double bill? Don't know, the 'berries only gives him ample breaks, particularly vocally, this type of show could be exhausting for him. Only EC knows.

(Wouldn't it be cool to add a solo Wally guitar break to a Raspberries jammin' "It Hurts Too Much"

Or their Lennon/Macca harmonies to I Could Really Love You?

I admit, I've completely changed, if EC could pull it off physically and mentally, and the band was down with it, it could actually be a lot of fun for everyone.

S

[marvin]

Oh Eric can pull it off alright. All you need to do is take out the covers:

1. I Can't Explain

2. Needles & Pins

3. Beatles covers (3 or 4 songs)

Suddenly you have room for about 4 of Eric's solo songs.

Marv

[seattlesteve]

You're right on the covers, but remember Wally sings lead on many covers giving EC a break.

Having said that, I guess EC is at least singing harmony or BG too.

Wouldn't be the same as an EC solo, but if he played at least a few of his biggest and most familiar hits, it could double attendance and get the tour actually off the ground.

[marvin]

Steve you and I have reached a consensus. Can we get the band into a room with some promoters and work some magic?

Marv

[seattlesteve]

Would House of Blues interest perk up again with the addition of solo material?

What about a tour sponsor, like most have?

Smuckers? Dairy Association?

I don't entirely understand the role of a promoter and others, with groups like Clear Channel, owning radio stations, venues, etc.

Financially, I'm assuming the 10 gig tour was in the black and the band made some small coin.

Financially it makes more sense to tour with a cd/dvd to push and conversely you don't release a cd/dvd without a supporting tour. Let's do it right this time.

WWSD (What would Steve do). I'd tour, push the live dvd (a very high percentage of concert attendees will purchase, and have a new single.

Not sure what Eric has up his sleeve in his notebook, but unless he has new 'berries material here's what I'd do...

It's early April. I'd plan a summer weekends tour (that's how REO does it). Keep your day jobs/family, gone Fri-Sun. Summer weather opens up many more venue options.

That gives a couple months, to finish the dvd and come up with a single. No single?. Since we start touring in the summer, bring the band and the 'dubs together to Beachwood Studios, and re-record "Top Down Summer" Perfect 'berries song, Wally could puch up the guitar, and Jim would obviously have a major impact on live drums, and the harmonies are waiting to happen.

Eric doesn't have to lock himself up with a bunch of diet cokes with pressure to write, just go right into rearranging TDS, and teaching the band a handful of solo stuff.

"Top Down Summer Tour Featuring Eric Carmen and the Raspberries" Bernie talks to Ford, who sponsors the tour. Every DVD purchased allows you to be in a drawing for a convertable Ford Mustang. At the outdoor shows it's by the stage. Mustang works great too for the inevitable killer 'berries version of MMLC. The band could be in a Mustang for the T-shirts

Very upbeat, very summer, merch to sell/push, music to sell/push and TDS may get them radio interviews and the impossible.. new song on the air? (Or at least download for a buck.

Get on one of the late night talk shows.

Even the reunion is old news now. To get publicity, something needs to be new.. a summer tour, summer angle, EC is behind this many hits? new dvd, and new song, is newsworthy and would garner some pub.

Marv am I crazy?

[MAM]

Sounds like a great idea to me, but somebody, somewhere, will find something wrong with it.

[HT from Mo]

Not me.

[seattlesteve]

Raspberries music, TDS, and MMLC just feel summer-ey to me. (plus driving around, etc.)They could out Beach Boy Jardine's tour. I think it's a golden opportunity with an angle. Eric and Wally could do a publicity radio tour playing something acoustic with the DJ. I know I can make that happen here, and I'm sure it could happen in Cleveland, and we go to the rest of the Raspberries soldiers and call in ever collective connection we have.

Hey, most of us would have lost the bet on what's already happened in 'berries-land. Let's go for it while the door is still cracked opened.

S

[ericphan]

Let's get real here, for all intents and purposes, as much as we love this band, they just don't have mass appeal. We are a small adamant "cult" following. We can blame it on poor timing, bad management, lack of promotion, internal band turmoil, there are many reasons why things never worked out on a larger scale.

As far as now is concerned: You can't have a successful tour for a band that has only one major hit that still gets airplay today (GATW).

Eric hasn't had a solo hit in almost 20 years, but at least he still has 4 or 5 songs in rotation on many stations.

The formula for success in today's market would be: The Raspberries featuring Eric Carmen along with another major act.

I just saw an ad for Poco and Pure Prairie League at small local venue and on a larger scale, Chicago is touring with America. Find a tag team boys and go get 'em!!!

[marvin]

Yes a 'tag team' approach would work, but remember you're then talking about the 'berries/Eric doing probaby 15 songs at the most. They could probably get by with a set list like this:

1. Go All the Way

2. I Wanna Be With You

3. Let's Pretend

4. Tonight

5. Ecastasy

6. Should I Wait

7. Last Dance

8. I'm A Rocker

9. Overnight Sensation

10. Party's Over

11. Play On

12.All By Myself

13. Hungry Eyes

14. Make Me Lose Control

15. Never Gonna Fall In Love Again

Marv

[raspberrywine]

I wouldnt worry about the Raspberries, I am sure they can sort it out on their own.

Best to worry about things you can effect directly and are in your control. At least that's what all the "self-help" books say. This being the case, its time to plan out the AD HOC bands breakout tour for this Spring and Summer. Only possessing a cult following in the lower farming communities of Manitoba, it's time to plot some strategies that are going to make this band the next Guess Who. Here's what Id do: The NHL playoffs are coming up, Writing a series of new material that all involve concepts around hockey or ice skating would be a good bet. The Canadian public would go crazy thus creating a wider audience. Do a double bill tour with an established act like Mike and the Mounties or the LaBatts Brothers ,i.e., bands that have had huge hits previously in Canada. Get someone to sponsor the tour like Canadian Pacific Railways or Tim Hortons doughnuts. Don't do any gigs in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver. That would be too predictable. Stick with the small venues like the Hooters in Moose Shoulder, Saskatchewan. This way a ground swell is created with the masses that will eventually make its' way to the big cities causing riots and additional notariety.Go with experience. Get Don King or Tony LaRussa to manage the tour. If this all fails, dress up like Margaret Trudeau and film a DVD covering nothing but Celine Dion tunes. This is an angle that cant fail, this will work, this is a plan that will make them a household name in Lethbridge.

[marvin]

Raspberrwine, enough with the Ad Hoc stuff ok?

Marv

[marvin]

Or...

How about splitting the show up like this

1st Set: Raspberries music, maybe 12 songs

BREAK

2nd Set: Starts of with the guys doing their own material

a. Eric does "ABM", "Hungry" and "MMLC"

b. Wally does 2 solo songs

c. Dave does 2 solo songs

Rest of the half continues with Raspberries songs, maybe 5 more songs.

Marv

[seattlesteve]

I agree with the general concept of starting and ending with Raspberries, with a solo set in the middle.

Talk about wall to wall hits. Once again the hardest part would be what NOT to play.

S

[pierson]

Or...

How about splitting the show up like this

1st Set: Raspberries music, maybe 12 songs

BREAK

2nd Set: Starts of with the guys doing their own material

a. Eric does "ABM", "Hungry" and "MMLC"

b. Wally does 2 solo songs

c. Dave does 2 solo songs

Rest of the half continues with Raspberries songs, maybe 5 more songs.

Marv

here's the thing... if i wanted to hear Eric solo material performed by the Raspberries it MUST make sense with the aesthetic of the band...

the mid '80s solo doesn't, no matter how much anyone thinks it can be Rasbperries-ized

The Zombies tried doing "marginal" latter solo stuff & it SUCKED in the context of what is perceived as a Zombies reunion... whereas if they only chose the good stuff from Colin Blunstone's first solo album, it would fly...

The best solo stuff & Wally stuff are songs like:

Hey Deanie

Sunrise

My Girl

Come Back

It Hurts Too Much

Love Is All That Matters

Never Gonna Fall In Love Again

All By Myself (is a small stretch)

using songs like Hungry Eyes & Make Me Lose Control as ticket movers, is ok for that purpose only-- and if the band totally agrees with it, BUT it will definitely come as a major left turn from what should be expected from a Raspberries set...

and believe me, there will hardly be a critic standing who wouldn't pounce on it (despite most critics being arses)....

[marvin]

Pat I totally agree with your statements. My choice of EC solo songs are not because I like the songs, but specifically because they are 'ticket movers', as you call them. I could care less for "Hungry Eyes", but unfortunately the song is popular with many people.

Marv

[pierson]

which makes it a slightly tough call, although I'd err on the side of caution and NOT do a song like "Hungry Eyes" because the other solo stuff is a strong enough draw...

think of it this way... I highly doubt that the Eagles do "The Heat Is On" and "All She Wants To Do Is Dance"-- I don't think they would ever make sense at an Eagles concert...

or imagine the Faces doing "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" or "Have I Told You Lately"??? people would throw stuff at them... but if they did "You Wear It Well" or "Gasoline Alley" or "Maggie May" they'd be fine....

[marvin]

Actually Pat, during the Eagles' 1994 tour they did do "The Heat Is On." They dropped it off the set list pretty quickly. As far as I know, "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" was still on the set list that they did last year.

Call me Switzerland 'cos I'm taking the middle ground on this one. Bringing in Eric's solo songs, not necessarily his best but his 'hits', might not satisfy the critics, but it will make some fans happy. Is it worth it take the chance? I think so.

Marv

[JCraft]

Actually, the Eagles included Heart of the Matter, and did it "Eagles style" the best version ever.

JIM

[James]

Eagles solo careers didn't hold a candle to the groups' stuff....except for "Heart Of The Matter"...as good as any Eagles song!

[pierson]

well... "Heart Of The Matter" does make sense in an "Eagles" set...

the other MAJOR strike against "Hungry Eyes" is that Eric did not write it...

[Don_Krider]

I'm not taking a stand on this, nor am I in disagreement with any comments made here, I just thought someone should point out that there's a lot of Raspberries fans who never saw a single reunion show and would like the chance to do so, and the band's "live" album (without anyone's solo songs) may make those fans hungry to hear the band again.

For me, whatever the band decides and agrees to is fine with me, but the new cd/dvd may create interest in the band's music, and I suspect Rykodisc might want the band the concentrate on performing songs from that release on a tour to generate sales for the album.

I would agree that Eric's eight Billboard solo Top 40 hits and Raspberries four (five Top 40 in Cash Box) combined do increase the potential audience that might attend a show, but then you would have a very mixed audience of pop fans and rock fans who might have very mixed emotions about such a show (I can't think of too many folks who love Celine Dion who would sit through a Small Faces show, for instance, and vice versa).

When the guys were thinking about a reunion in 1999 (if you read the article, it says that tour would have been "hit-driven," had it happened, with a mix of Raspberries and Eric solo material), Billboard magazine (April 10, 1999) - http://www.ericcarmen.com/press/990410.htm - had sales figures from Soundscan ---

"The Arista Masters greatest-hits package Eric Carmen: The Definitive Collection, which includes Raspberries material, has sold 12,000 units since its 1997 release, according to SoundScan. A 1991 Capitol release, The Collectors' Series: The Raspberries, has sold 22,000, according to SoundScan."

Those two releases were the then most recent U. S. CDs of Eric and Raspberries, respectively, and the sales don't indicate a huge interest, at that time, in either artist. I found those sales depressing, especially since Eric's "Definitve Collection" contained all the Raspberries hits plus the Arista/RCA hits of Eric that are most played on radio.

Personally, I think the guys will make the right decision on what to do in 2007, and the most important thing to do right now is to help promote the cd/dvd at retail --- that's the key to whether there will be another tour, I would think.

Again, not trying to offend anyone who has posted here.

Don Krider

[marvin]

Very good comments Don, and as usual, quite on the mark. This is certainly a Catch-22 situation: The band needs to promote the live dvd/cd. So how do you promote it outside the NYK-LA markets and draw a larger audience? You play on Eric's name and the connection he has to the band. One point I'd add regarding Eric's solo career is, "ABM" has seen a huge spike in audience awareness over the 10 years since the "Definitive Collection" release.

Marv

[Steeler Deb]

I have to say that I am of those fans. Even though I have been an EC fan for many years, I have never been to any of his concerts and I would really like to see one.

The number reason why is the tours have always been in larger venues outside of the Pittsburgh market. I can't recall Eric or the berries ever touring in or around the western PA area. If they did, I would have been there!

Last month, both Hall & Oates and Nickelback performed at the Bryce Jordan Center in State College. Both were sold-out performances.

This month Poco and the Pure Prairie League are performing at Seven Springs Resort in PA and Huey Lewis will be performing there in June. I have tickets for that!

In 2005, Lonestar and Chicago came to Indiana, PA. Again, both were sold out performances. I was at both of these.

I think what I trying to say here is, maybe the smaller venues are the way to start and build from there.

And if the band decides to tour, for me, it doesn't matter what songs are played. I became an EC fan when I first heard GATW, and I love Hungry Eyes just as much even though he didn't write it.

I just hope when they decide to tour, they will think about coming to western PA.

[seattlesteve]

"Hungry Eyes" I'd classify as a ticket mover, however I've seen "Make Me Lose Control" live and not only is it a great song live, I don't think it's a stretch at all for the Raspberries, in fact I think it would be great and more of a fit than Love Is All That Matters for the band.

There are two issues here that must come together. The ultimate setlist/concert experience given the personnel on stage, and 2, filling the seats. If third party money is involved, the latter will take priority.

Fortunately it's going to be a good show in any case, it just needs to materialize.