EC and Manilow ñ an evil conspiracy at work?

[Kapurasama]

Hello all, I'm new to Eric's music.

A question that's been bugging me since yesterday afternoon:

The EC song "Never Gonna Fall In Love Again", copyright 1975 Arista, sounds EXTREMELY similar to Barry Manilow's 1981 song "If I Should Love Again". The tune, the lyrics, they're both very close.

I'm curious exactly how this happened. Eric's song was obviously there first, but Manilow doesn't strike me as a lyric thief. Both songs are copyright Arista ñ did they ask for a re-issue?

Just curious. As I said, it's been bugging me.

[Raspbernie]

Hmmm. I never actually heard the Manilow tune before, but I downloaded a bit of it today and there is a hint of a similarity in the chorus melody, and even a little more than a hint of a similarity in the chorus lyrics:

"If I should love again

if I find someone new

it would be make-believe

for in my heart it would be you"

I'll bet it wasn't intentional, probably a subconscious lift.

--Bernie

[darlene]

I didn't hear the Manilow tune, but the only similarity in lyrics is the line with "again" and "new." There are so many words commonly used in these songs, similar lyrics are bound to come up. The last couplet words don't mean anything close to what Eric's said.--Darlene

[Kapurasama]

Yeah, but the song, taken on the whole, seems rather similar.

The plots differ in that EC's tune says he'll never find another love, while Manilow says he'll find one but won't love her.

[Gregkevinw]

Kapurasama,

I have written about this before on this site. I firmly believe that Arista president Clive Davis enabled Barry Manilow to "lift" some of Eric's ideas/tunes. One of these days I am going to list them, but there are just to many similarities to be coincidence.

Bernie, if you listen to the musical bridge in "If I Should Love Again", its the chorus from "Never Gonna Fall In Love Again". As a big fan of Eric's from the begining, I remember how Arista's support of EC begain to fade after "Boats" did not become a "monster" lp.

Clive Davis was a big numbers guy and I believe that he became so angry with Eric after "Boats" that he pretty much dismissed him. (Good question for ASK ERIC...relationship with Clive). At the time Manilow could have burped into a microphone and as long as there was an orchestra behind it, it would have sold millions.

Eric did not want to promote...and Manilow was a master promoter, doing anything arista asked. I may be wrong, but as far as Clive was concerned I think it was classic good son, bad son.

[darlene]

You know, there ARE a lot of similarities between Carmen and Manilow songs, and I never thought of it that way. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if good old Clive allowed (maybe even encouraged!) Barry to lift Eric's melodies and ideas. Heaven knows, they're fantastic enough to be the envy of any artist. Oh boy, THAT would be really really nasty.

From what I've heard about old Clive, he did even worse things than that in his career, if you believe the press rumor mill. I got a good look at Barry buttering up Clive and Clive buttering up Barry at the one year Arista bash after-concert party at The Marriott. It was a bit more than sickening.

Clive was also promising Melissa Manchester's parents that he'd "take good care of her..."etc. Personally, I don't think I'd believe a word of what he said... --Darlene

[Steveh]

Darlene,

There may be many similarities between Manilow and Eric's songs - I'm trusting your judgement because the only Manilow songs I've heard are his really popular ones that I couldn't avoid. The lyrics may be similar but , for some reason, I don't like BM's voice, and I just get the feeling he's insincere when he sings. Wouldn't it be ironic if we found out that it is Eric, not BM, who "writes the songs that make the whole world sing"?

Steveh

[Kapurasama]

Well, Bruce Johnston originally wrote "I Write The Songs", and it was released (to little or no success) by both David Cassidy and The Captain and Tenille.

I like Manilow's stuff, though this incident does change my view of him a bit.

At least there's still Al Stewart, who's nobody's studio musician.

And, of course, EC.

[darlene]

Steveh, God knows what record executives do to promote their perceived "cash cow." My introduction to Barry Manilow was the beautiful song, Mandy. I always loved that song, and somehow just loved the honest sound of piano and beautiful melody, beautiful lyrics. Then he got carried away with all this commercial Copa Cabana stuff and all the old ladies came out of the woodwork (and some young women too) and bought everything.

Weekend in New England was pretty, and some of his other stuff, but the bigger he got, the more commercial and hackneyed it all became. He's a gifted pianist, has a nice voice (nice tone quality, but he's no EC.)

I find it utterly IMPOSSIBLE that Eric never thought his own voice was good, because Eric's voice is the most luminous, rich and resonant voice I've ever heard, with so many colors, and I'm a violinist and a fiddler, and to me, tone quality is EVERYTHING! Anyway Barry's voice is nice in a static sort of way. It's just the whole Manilow phenomenon that got to be too much after awhile. Barry always sounded insincere to me too, but it may be just our perception.

I saw a prime example of that one night at the one year Arista Anniversary concert (I was in the wings), but then again, everyone has a bad night or two... --Darlene

[Steveh]

Darlene,

If Eric wants to, I will gladly trade my voice for his!

Steveh

[marvin]

By the way, Beach Boy Bruce Johnston wrote "I Write the Songs" as more or less a tribute to fellow Beach Boy Brian Wilson.

Marvin

[Matthew C. Clark]

I think that Barry Manilow's "One Voice" from 1979 is a classic & the song "Ships" written by Mott The Hoople's Ian Hunter is one of my favorites & the remake of "I Don't Want To Walk Without You". Barry said that it is his favorite of all his CD's or albums. Matt