Danny S. Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 http://www.citi-music.com/radio/playlist/Sparrow.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Carmen Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 The odd thing about this recording, is that Wally and I could point out each and every way that Sandy Linzer and Mike Petrillo took a pretty ballad and completely destroyed it from start to finish. We remember it all like it was yesterday, and yet it took place almost 40 years ago. If it weren't illegal, I would drive a stake right through both of their black little hearts for what they did to "Sparrow" and to Cyrus Erie. Maybe Bernie has the original demo ( recorded in a local studio without the "help" of big time New York producers and a huge recording budget). What a travesty! Listening to this track is enough to make me physically ill. ec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ira Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Eric...You might remember that I shared that when I was a kid...I loved the 4 Seasons and I had like their first 16 singles.Even then I was a trivia lunatic,I maybe could afford one "single" a week on my allowance..and I read every word on both sides of every new single I bought.Well..starting with "Let's Hang On'...I noticed a new name other than Crewe or Gaudio or Callello on some of the 4 Seasons' records ..It was Sandy Linzer..and I thought.."Oh a "Lantzman" (That's Jewish for "Paisan".Well to cut to the chase...Many years later I was in the insurance business and I got a lead for Sandy Linzer of "Sandy Linzer Productions".He turned out to be the the same guy..and except for hearing his cool story that "A Lover's Concerto" was such a smash that he was "inspired" (Read "Sequel") to write "Opus 17" for the 4 Seasons" (Another quasi-classical song)-I found him to be everything you suggest ...A New Jersey version of the characters in L.A. ....A Desperate Soul-less Fool.-Ira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniekNY Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 That was so bad I shut it off before it finished...now, I hear that it is an EC song but what the f***!? There is no emotion or heart it to it. I'll bring the hammer to drive the stakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Well...I really like it...after only two listens it's stuck in my head. Having never heard the the original demo,I have nothing to compare it to. It's pop-rock of it's era...sounds like it should have charted...I esp like the bridge part with the 'Nowhere Man' type ooh-la-la vocals. I hate to disagree...but I can only go by what I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Carmen Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 The bridge is just about the only tyhing that remains of my original arrangement. The demo is me on piano, Wally on acoustic guitar, Bob McBride on bass and Mike McBride on drums. I'd compare the arrangement to "Words" or "To Love Somebody" by the Bee Gees, a simple lead vocal with beautiful, three- part background vocals. When Cyrus Erie signed with Epic Records in 1968 we were all 18 years old. Wally had already had his introduction the the music biz via the Choir's stint on Roulette Records, owned and operated by Morris Levy, one of the most infamous record label heads of all time. Morris was a complete dirt-bag who cheated all of his artists out of all their royalties. He made me ashamed to be Jewish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raspbernie Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Preserving the Cyrus Erie master tapes was a project I undertook a year or so ago with hopes that a commercial release might eventually see the light of day. I guarantee after you've heard the brilliance of the original demos you'll be clamoring for a copy. I'll give you all a taste tomorrow :-)Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Carmen Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Sandy Linzer showed up an hour late to a meeting in HIS office at Columbia records. He walked in the door, put his feet up on the desk ( right in our faces ) and, with no apology for his tardiness, asked us to start playing our songs for him. I sat down at the upright piano in his office and we began to run through our songs, just me at the piano and the boys singing background vocals. After about thirty minutes or so, Linzer and Petrillo took me and our manager Don Ladanyi out into the hall and said, "Here's what we buy, this kid, and his songs and piano playing. We don't give a "sh*t about the group. It's him, and his songs. He's a young f*ckin' Bob Gaudio! That's all we want." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Well if someone can dig that up...I'd love to hear it[The demo].It is a cluttered arrangment BUT..it's a catchy song.There is something about that organ that I like too...the lead guitar seems out of place...BUT..it still gets a big thumbs up from me ...in spite of the messy arrangment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Thanks Bernie...I have two friends whose ears I trust...after they listened to 'Sparrow' both agreed it was a good song...with a GREAT bridge.I am really looking forward to hearing the demo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Well...after reading Eric's story of his meeting with Linzer I'll say two things...Linzer sounds like a total putz...and being compared to Bob Gaudio is high praise indeed...so he did have a nose for talent...and he was on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Carmen Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Needless to say, Don and I were mortified. We were a group and it was all or nothing as far as we were concerned. Wally, ever the diplomat, said "F*ck them!". He'd already seen this movie when he was with the Choir. I tried to make the best of the situation and figured maybe we could win them over in time. We went into Columbia Studio "C" which was an old church, converted into a recording studio ( great echo ) and Linzer and Petrillo spent $60, 000 dollars ( in 1968 money ) recording two sides, "Sparrow" and another song of mine (later recorded by the Four Seasons) called "It Won't Be The Same Without You." We did one take of "Get The Message" which we told them was our worst song. Epic released the single "Sparrow" and, within two weeks, the one take guitar, bass and drums "Get The Message" flipped and became the "A" side of the record. Radio became confused, and couldn't figure which side they were supposed to play, and the record died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvin Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 There's a night and day difference between the original demo and this travesty. The original, as Eric says, is a pretty song. Is that still Wally, Mike and Bob on the song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Carmen Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Every success the Raspberries and I ever had was achieved "IN SPITE OF" rather than" because of" the people around us. I've always envied the groups and artists that were lucky enough to have found a kindred spirit that could actually HELP them realize their vision. What an incredible luxury it must have been for Freddie Mercury to have found Roy Thomas Baker. Anyone else might haver totally mucked it up. The Beatles got George Martin and Geoff Emerick. Lucky bastards. Their records ended up sounding pretty good, didn't they? It's the luck of the draw. ec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Carmen Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 The bottom line is this. We were four 18 year olds from Cleveland who had a unique sound of our own. The brainless "producers" assigned to us, decided to turn us into the Four Seasons with no regard whatsoever for who we really were. Our own identities were of no importance to them, and they let us know that right up front. In our desire to be cooperative, we let them rape our songs and our record. The result was a disaster. We probably should have told them to pound salt and walked away from the deal, but very few 18 year olds are savvy enough to know how to achieve what they want. This was my introduction to the "music biz." Just the first of what would become many disappointing experiences where I put my trust in someone else, only to find they were wrong for the project, wrong for me and ruined something I had spent months or years trying to create. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Carmen Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Having said all this, I must tell you that, to this day, I LOVE Jimmy Ienner, and I give him ALL the credit for recognizing what the Raspberries could become in their very raw, juvenile state. And Donnie Ienner, who was probably fifteen years old when we began working with Jimmy, is probably, single-handedly responsible for all those Raspberries records' success. Donnie turned out to be the best promotion man in the history of the music business. I met some pretty incredible promo guys on my way up, but nobody, and I mean NOBODY, could hold a candle to Donnie. He was the best of the best. There will probably never be anyone ever again with that kind of power. ec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I look forward to hearing the original demo Eric & Bernie.... I always believe that karma will take care of those who shaft you in your lifetime - maybe not now but later --- muhahahahahha Let's hope it finds them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvin Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Very interesting stuff Eric. Roy Thomas Baker certainly understood what Queen wanted, and in Martin and Emerick, the Beatles found a team that was able to help them develop their vision. So how did Raspberries get Ienner? Did you have a say in a producer, or did Capitol call all the shots all the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmichel Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I can hear why you were and are upset about what they did to "Sparrow"...It sounds like they were trying to turn you into The Fifth Dimension...They took a good song and turned it into an overdone flowery mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Before I call it a night let me say this...This was a hell of a thread...I mean when Eric gets into telling his history...it does not get any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Carmen Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Success, for us, was always double edged sword. We loved Jimmy abd Donny, but we never loved the way our records sounded. I always thought the songs were so good, they transcended the production and sound, and the sheer passion grabbed the listener and came through. Jimmy is an incredibly warm, charming guy. He's kind of like Bill Clinton in that everyone wants to do their best for him. Combine that with his "little brother"becoming the best promotion man in the world, and you can see how it all happened. My torment was aways knowing how much better it coukd have been.The "extremely compressed" sound of the records worked at AM. but just didn't sound as good om FM radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Not to get off the subject Eric but do you think they may both attend a show out in LA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 A request to Bernie.....Make it "downloadable".....Please?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Eric is Right on the mark. The biz is run by cold hearted lizards like that. Anything for a buck......cold blooded reptiles. Aaaarrrrgh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raspbernie Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I do not own these recordings, so I cannot upload them fully. But, here are two tastes of the extraordinary RARITIES that are the Cyrus Erie MASTER TAPES. Keep in mind that there are a number of songs (never released!)—all digitally remastered and ready to be unleashed. I suppose all that is needed is some demand from the fans and Eric's O.K. I'm sure one of the cooler little niche labels would love to get their hands on this. Anyway, without further ado: "SPARROW" DEMO [EXCERPT] "SPARROW" BRIDGE [iSOLATED VOCALS] Enjoy!BerniePS: Listen with headphones! :-)PPS: Love Mike McBride's "shuffle" beat on that last verse.PPPS: That isolated harmony backing vocal is sung live (without overdubs) in one take by a group of teenagers. WOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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