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Speculation on Eric's reasons


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Bernie, I was in no way blaming you for this mess. No one is really to blame, I'm sure, but the promoters. I have been coming to your site for years, ever since it was first started, and I can say it's top notch. You do great work and is very much appreciated by all EC fans. I'm sorry if some people took it that way. I just meant that if you posted those dates WITHOUT confirmation, then you do burden some responsibility. If, in fact, the promoters were saying Eric was going to perform at those dates, and now they're saying he isn't, then obviously you did nothing wrong. And I'll be the first to apologize. According to Alan Parsons web site, Eric was only going to fill in where Todd wasn't. Even Todd's site refers to your site as to where he may and may not be playing. It's all very strange. So, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, especially you Bernie. And I appreciate your recent post about there being a full explanation of what happened. That's all we really want. Some of us are just a little angry right now since we're talking about shows in the next couple of weeks and we still haven't heard anything. I will, however, stand by what I said about some fans having blind allegiance. It sounds like some of you will forgive him no matter what. If it is indeed the promoters fault and something is really screwery, I understand. In my original post I said as much. If they want him to play at only the places Todd is not, that would be a travel nightmare for Eric, and quite frankly, stupid. I would think the bill is stronger with both of them on the ticket, so just let Eric play whether Todd is there or not. But if it is simply personality clashes, or some other arrangement that Eric doesn't like, that's a different story this late in the game. When I said Eric owes it to his fans, I meant he owes us an explanation IF he were to drop out. When you sign up for something and drop out and many of your fans have already bought tickets, he owes us that much. And from what you just posted Bernie, it seems like we'll get that. Sometimes we say things that don't come across quite right and sounds worse than it is. But hey, you never know...Maybe some harsh criticism and eruptions on this board will help the promoters, and maybe even Eric, realize how serious his fans are taking this. And that can't hurt.

Thanks again for all your hard work Bernie, and I agree with BadfingerBarb...your sense of humor is great, even when you were criticized. Take care.

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For anyone that bought tickets to shows that originally listed Eric and now list Todd...I just called Ticketmaster regarding the Westbury Music Fair show. Ticketmaster's web page now states: "Eric Carmen will no longer be performing. He will be replaced by Todd Rundgren." I told them I only bought the tickets to see Eric and they DID offer me a refund. So give it a shot.

I certainly would rather force the promoters to cancel a show due to lost ticket sales rather than let them have my money if Eric is not on the bill!

I'm still holding onto my tickets for three shows: The Keswick and WolfTrap (both venues still list Eric's name) and Atlantic City (Alan Parson's site is still calling this an Eric show).

No official word yet from Eric on his status.

--Bernie

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I definately would call Ticketmaster to complain! Maybe if they got enough letters and refunds issued because of no Eric, the promoters might wake up to view what a loyal fan base he has and come to him to front his own tour. Any word on the Chicago show yet? At least that one is free, but I'm not going if Eric isn't!

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The different opinions that are posted on this board are the kinds of things that make the Internet worthwhile so I applaud Bernie for allowing us to use this forum. After reading all the pros and cons (and I'll admit I am a ticketholder who is not happy with the turn of events), I have personally come to a decision. For what it's worth to Eric or anyone else, I will gladly listen to his music and buy his CDS but I will NEVER purchase a ticket to an event he is SUPPOSED to be at again. Three strikes and you're out. I used to really resent the other guys for putting out a Raspberries album without Eric (and boy did I give it to them on their website). But as it turns out, it looks like they were right about Eric all along. Good luck to all the rest of his fans.

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Bernie...you say to check to see if we can get our money back if Eric was originally scheduled to play, but has since been taken off the bill. Well, how do we know if he was originally scheduled to play?? We simply went by the dates you posted and bought tickets. Then when the asteriks started showing up, everyone assumed Eric would still be at those shows but Todd wouldn't, and that they would both be at the rest of the shows in July. That's how you presented it at your site. What I want to know is...were they EVER to appear together, even after the asteriks started showing up. Or, when you started putting asteriks up, is that when it was announced that it was either Todd OR Eric?? It seems like all the other performer's site (Parsons, Bruce, Farner, Cross) understand that it's either Todd or Eric, not both. Thanks.

Wally

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You're basically at Ticketmaster's mercy in regards to getting refunds. I'm honestly quite surprised they are offering a refund under any condition short of cancellation of the entire show. I was told by another poster off the board that Ticketmaster told him if one of the performers cancels a show it is considered a partial cancelation and a refund is available. Your best bet is, if Eric cancels, to go to your point of purchase, put on your best poker face, and tell them that you want a refund because of Eric's cancellation. Either they'll do it or they won't. I had to buy mine online as we don't have Ticketmaster in Oklahoma. I have no idea how a refund would be processed under those conditions. I'm going to the Minnesota show whether Eric plays or not. I've already taken off work and made the travel arrangements. If he isn't playing in St. Louis, I would like to get a refund but I'm not really optimistic about that happening. I'm still hoping it will be a moot point and that Eric will be performing. The one positive aspect of all this is how it boosts the hits on the website. I've gone from checking in once a month to checking in several times a day!

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There had only been three instances where I was able to get refunds for tickets.

Once was for the time Robert Plant got seriously injured in a car accident, and the Zeppelin tour cancelled.

Another time, I had tickets to Pat Travers -- but had really wanted to see Detective, which was the opening act. They had been replaced by an unknown act called "Up in the Air", though Travers would still be playing...surprisingly, I was able to

get a refund...

Then there was the James Taylor fiasco. The Concord Pavilion had these season passes of six concerts, with similiar types of music. Well, there was this one concert that cancelled (it was somebody like Cheap Trick or Sammy Hagar or somebody like that -- as part of a rock package).

Well, BASS (which used to be the ticket company before Ticketmaster) decided to substitute tickets to James Taylor instead, for show #6 of the package. Needless to say, there were a lot of very livid and angry rock fans.

As great as an artist Taylor is, he is NOT someone that most of the hard rock people exactly would want to see.

BASS ended up having to offer refunds after a deluge of complaints.

Substituting another show COULD be an option on the part of Ticketmaster, in lieu of a refund...but they need to be careful what they offer as a substitute.

If they did offer Stones or McCartney tickets, they would be more than fair, and I would most likely go.

But the bottom line is I've seen these guys before...but still haven't seen Eric.

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Wally-- When Eric agreed to be a part of the tour, he was told that he would play Hawaii and ALL dates starting with the July 4th show in Denver. On those "few" occasions where Todd could play they would appear TOGETHER...just like in Hawaii.

When Eric arrived in Hawaii, everything changed.

My concert listing was based on what Eric was told and what he told me. I don't know what the other band member's web sites said or didn't say two weeks ago since I wasn't checking them.

Many of the venues listed Eric's name (some still do). Westbury was one of 'em. The reason I thought I'd have a chance with them for a refund is that their Ticketmaster listing actually says Eric was replaced by Todd. As BadfingerBarb says, it's up to their complete discretion on this sort of thing. The first person I spoke to refused to give me a refund until I asked to talk to someone above them! --Bernie

PS: Hypothetically...let's say you're a kid. And one of your friends tells you that he's going to give you 23 pieces of candy if you ride your bike all the way over to his house (he lives far away) to help him clean his room with a bunch of his friends. So you agree. When you're done, you ask for the candy and he says, "Oh. You know what? I only have 7 pieces of candy for you, 'cause that's all I have left over after I gave all of my other friends theirs." Would that kid still be your friend? frown

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Anyone who wanted a refund due to Eric's absence from the Dirty Dancing show in Sacramento was given one. As soon as everyone heard Eric was not performing, an enormous line formed for refunds. I got my money back, but still remember that day as a huge disappointment. No reason for his absence was given at the time, so I headed south to the Concord Pavilion hoping to catch him there. Alas, same scenario. Complete bummer. Thanks to the Ringo tour more than a decade later, I finally got to see Eric perform.

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I do not have a "blind allegiance" to Eric Carmen or to anyone else for that matter. I, like many of you, am extremely disappointed with the turn of events regarding the Abbey Road tour. However, it doesn't take a genious to see what's happened. Eric is not the bad guy here! I believe this tour has been shoddily produced and Eric is one of the victims. Many years ago when I was in college I was on the committee which organized concerts on our campus in Ohio. Suffice it to say that some of the concert promoters with whom we dealt were unscrupulous characters. Believe me, it's not uncommon in the business. Many of you want to blame Eric for not fulfilling a commitment. Perhaps it is the promoters who are not fulfilling their commitment to Eric. Whenever I saw Eric perform live, it was obvious he put his whole heart and soul into it. I am certain that he would do the same on this tour---he's just not being allowed to. Betsey

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Bernie, Billy K. & others: Way back in June or July of 1985, singer Phil Collins was going to perform at the Pine Knob Music Theatre. Phil sang "I Don't Care Anymore" from "Hello, I Must Be Going" & that was it because Phil had a sore throat & could not perform. The fans booed at the concert. It was the biggest disappointment in Pine Knob history. I was not there but I read the Detroit Free Press article 2 days later at the Midland, MI library. Let's hope that Eric does not have a sore throat & can't perform at DTE Energy Music Theatre. Matt

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Betsey, It is blind allegiance when people immediately start blaming promoters and absolving Eric of any responsibilty without having one iota of an idea what was going on. Blaming the promoters and absolving Eric isn't any different than blaming Eric and absolving the promoters. It's just like returning a verdict before the trial. Before Bernie's recent post none of us really knew what the reason was although it did end up being exactly what I thought was the most likely. I'm hopeful that Bernie leaked this information to quell the angry mob and not because Eric couldn't work something out and has decided not to do the tour.

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Matthew, that brings to mind a story about Sammy Davis, Jr., back in he mid-1970s. He was playing Harrah's Club in Reno. On the second song, he stopped and said "I don't have it tonight".

He walked off the stage, then made arrangements to refund the money AND buy dinner and drinks for everyone there.

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I'm just curious here, those of you who think it is "blind allegiance" to Eric by those who choose to wait to hear the whole story before they cast stones would, by the same token, be showing "blind allegiance" to the promoters, absolving them of any responsibilty without having one iota of an idea what was going on. So, since *everyone* here seems to be guilty of blind allegiance to *someone*, what's the hubbub about?

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Well I guess I would be called, by some, one of Eric's fans who you would call blinded. I do like all of Eric's songs. I like some more than others but I always appreciate the music. And that's not how I feel other other artists. If this makes me a bad person or a blind person, so be it. I like his music and all of it. And yes I do love the "I Was Born To Love You" album and the Geffen album, too. I love them all really. Now, maybe you like some and not all but I don't have the urge to call you names. We are all fans here or so I thought. Yes, all of us wanted to see Eric play this summer and Eric probally wanted to play too, but ??? Well, we still don't know the "but" part yet. Let's wait to see what the "but" really is folks. JUNE

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I agree with you, June... the Geffen album has been my favorite for years, I even paid an artist to reproduce the cover in charcoals for me, and the picture has been on my bedroom wall for years, it's awesome. I know this lp may not be everyone's favorite, that's fine.

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Until we find out for sure what is going to happen, (and even after we do!), keeping cool is the best policy. Imagine how Eric must have felt, arriving in Hawaii with "great expectations" for the tour, only to find out everything was different than he was originally told it was to be. Now THAT is total disappointment for a performer, but as always, he handled it with class. You don't see him yelling to the media about how terrible the promoters are. Whatever the disappointment is, yelling about it isn't going to change a thing, just get your blood pressure up.

If Eric plays, fine. If Todd plays, I won't be happy, but if I can't get a refund, I'll have to go. Christopher Cross is okay to listen to. Life doesn't always go the way we want, and we'll all see Eric somewhere again. (We did on Ringo's tour). This is just not one of those things in life to make yourself SICK over! And -- maybe it will work out alright and all this worrying will be for nothing.

--Darlene

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Julia, I, at no time, threw stones at anybody. All I ever said was that if Eric pulled out of a tour he was committed, he should give an explanation and it had better be a good one. Any reasonable person would agree to that!!! No where did I blame Eric! Nowhere!!! If he ended up giving a very lame reason for pulling out, I most definitely would have blamed him. I've now heard the reason for his trepidation and I understand his position. As with most things, it is not a black and white issue and I imagine he is wrestlting with deciding what to do. I'm still hoping he'll do the tour.

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Bernie, Billy K. & others: I forgot about the boy group O-Town (All Or Nothing) last year at the Midland, MI County Fairgrounds last August. I did not go to the concert. The group was about to go on stage at 8:00 that night but for reasons, they went on at 7:00 or 7:30 instead & did a capella instead. At around 8:20 that night, the group hopped a plane to Germany & the fans booed (especially the girls who got upset) & the O-Town group left the stage. That was the worse thing in Midland County Fairgrounds history so far. Matt

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laugh Hi everybody: Here I was, grumbling since the tour was announced, that every single date Eric was going to be around New York I was going to be in Canada!! THEN -- I saw a date posted in Toronto, a mere four hours from where I will be staying in Ontario. NOW -- am I happy or sad? I'm feeling very badly for everybody who hasn't had the chance to see Eric live, especially GATW & BATC. I don't know Eric. I don't know Bernie. But I do know that neither one of them takes any of us or what they do lightly or for granted. What I would be SUPREMELY pissed off about is if I HAD spent a small fortune, like some of you already have, and Eric went on with a crappy show out of a misplaced sense of financial obligation to me instead of cancelling. I follow no one blindly, but I don't condemn anyone without the facts first. Patience, people, patience.

Annie

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