Open Letter To Marvin

[Lew Bundles]

Dear Marvin,

I'm not sure if they are a national or international chain or not, but on the East Coast of the United States there are a ton of franchise coffee/donut outlets called "Dunkin' Donuts"...A few years back, they had a t.v. advertising campaign that featured a little, older guy who woke up very early in the morning and uttered, while knocking the sleep from his weary bones the slogan ":time to make the donuts"...He, obviously, was the baker and it was his responsibility to get to Dunkin' Donuts and get the sugary confections on to the racks for the morning customers to enjoy...

In real life, I got to know this guy a little bit and felt a little pride in the fact that I knew this "celebrity"...I, often, would go into "Dunkin' Donut" shops and frequently state to customers who were  enjoying their chewables, that my friend had made those donuts...

So this is where you come in...Wally, to you, is the "time to make the donuts" guy...You take pride in your friendship with him and are quick to expostulate his virtues/accomplishments...Unfortunately, you ran into the namesake of this board who kind of put you in a defenseless position...To the board members here, Eric is their very own "time to make the donuts" guy...He's mine, too...And yours as well...I've met Eric a couple of three times and he wouldn't know me from a hole in the doughnut, but, as all the members here seem to, we enjoy the interaction we get from our "donut guy"...If that is "drinking the Kool-Ade, so be it...

You got beat up pretty good by him and it put a lot of us in a very tenuous/uneasy  position: torn between a friend and our "donut man"...

I hope this doesn't dissuade you from being an active member of this board...I know you're still out there because, recently, I saw a ":facebook" comment by you...To the best of my knowledge, you are still alive, just absent from here...

Rejoin us soon!!!...I learned a lot from you and we all, probably, have...If it wasn't for you, I never would have realized how much I hated Springsteen music...

By the way, I'll never forget how we stood side by side, at the Highline, during a reunion show wondering how the Raspberries were not bigger than they were...

But the thing I remember most, was walking down the street in Manhattan, with you, and seeing a provocatively dressed "lady of the night" and you yelling, "hey, momma yo":...Where did I hear that line before?...As soon as I realized that it was Eric's famous line in their 1st hit single,  it became clear as day: I realized that indeed, YOU, and not Wally or Eric, may have written "Go All The Way"...

See you soon, 

Your friend, Lew

[redd]

Geez Lew,

There must be a sensitive side to your "multi faceted personality. Who would've thunk it?!! That was a great letter to Marv & must say I agree with you on all points.

Not being sure just how Marvin may react to this, but you certainly gave it the old college try.

I miss him being here as well & I loved how he took time to put together Raspberries Reflections. That was a true labor of love.

redd

P.S. OMG dear birdy are you reading this?!! Yep, can hardly believe it myself! Lew, it would be so nice if you didn't call birdy a GADFLY anymore. She is super cool & you must agree we ALL have certain types of humor we enjoy/don't enjoy....

[James]

Pillow talk:

Hillary:  JAMES, you...just took me to the MOON and back.

James:  You know Hillary, I think LEW is my donut man.

The End.

 

[Aventurine]

Great post Lew!

You know, your posts sometimes annoyed me and I got angry, but this time I adore your post!

I think Marvin is one of the best poster on this site (as for me, he is the BEST! I admire all his posts) and most important royal fan for the Raspberries. Then why EC treated him so bad?  His 2 posts about Kay's thread must really hurt Marvin's pride. I was also shocked and disappointed when I read those posts.

Why Why Why Did EC used the words that insult him?  EC doesn't need fans anymore? Is he such a person? Might I understanding be mistaken? Why does nobody mentioned about it?

I thought again and again. I got sad and got rid of motivation to support EC. But But But...I'm thinking I should ask EC about this matter.

This thread gave me a good opportunity.

Thank you, Lew.
 
Naeko 

[James]

More pillow talk:

Hillary: James ....OH JAMES!!...  I'd like another, please???

James: You know Hillary ,   "Lew is all that matters", Eric is right.

THE END

[Sharen]

That is so emotional!

[Catnip]

I don't know Marvin. I did read the last couple of posts that I read by him and they did seem rather inflammatory. The first one that I remember reading and thinking "wow, not very cool" was the one when Eric posted the Sony press release for The Essential.  Marvin jumped on the thread and pretty much "attacked" for the way it was written and who was chosen to write it. Sony wrote the release and it was their job to do so. The second was the Kay Bryson thread. It almost felt like the posts were meant to anger/upset Eric in both situations. I felt "defensive" reading them and I can only imagine how they made Eric feel. I don't believe that Eric doesn't want/need fans. I think that he felt hurt and betrayed. These are only my thoughts.  I don't know Marvin, and I have never interacted with him in any way but his comments seemed more than a little "snarky" to me.

[James]

I like Marvin.  Marvin is a great asset to this site.  Marvin is knowledgable, and another thing I really like about him is that he doesn't throw complements around cheaply.....he has a lot of integrity in this respect.  He isn't afraid to say the truth as he sees it, I love this also about him.  The site is better with Marvin here.

Having said that, the truth is that Marvin over the years has posted rude stuff (rude may be too mild a term) toward Eric. He also attacked the fans who supported Eric in this last go round when Wally made some pretty low rent statements degrading Eric.    It may be Marvin's love for Wally that causes him to go over the line, but over the line he goes, IMHO.

How Eric and Marvin get on going forward is their business.  But I do not criticize (publicly or privately) Eric for anything he's posted on this subject.

In fact, Eric can take people posting against his positions.  It happened here a lot during the years when we debated religion, politcs etc.  He always remained respectful.  So if Eric is angry with someone, there probably is a pretty good reason.  And remember, we don't know everything that has gone on.

I believe that sometimes we have to trust a friend (Eric) who has earned that trust.  I know people criticize me for my actions toward others when these criticizers really don't understand the full dynamics of what was going on that caused me to behave as I behaved.

Anyway, that's my opinion.  I think it's good Lew posted this and that thus we're hashing it out a little.

James

 

[James]

Morning pillow talk:

Hillary:  James ...you know that song, "Afternooon Delight"?, well I would have named it "Morning Delight", what do you say???

James:  Hi Hillary, you know, I think I see the world thru "Lew colored glasses".

THE END

 

[Catnip]

Is there really anything for members to "hash out"?  I kind of see it like this...would you go to someone's house and criticize their décor, pets, or family? Would you tell that person how much nicer another person's house is? No, you wouldn't. Why bring up something that can only be taken as hurtful and mean spirited? Marvin posted, Eric reacted. Let it go.

[James]

It's a family here for those that have been here for a long time.  Families hash things out.  It's more of a community here than "someone's house", IMHO.

[Catnip]

It was an example of respecting someone's feelings. I just believe it is something between Marvin and Eric.

[James]

P.S.

Re:  the fan thing

Eric could come on here like most celebrities and smile, sign our autographs and never show his real self...this would be safe and would not threaten losing any fans. 

Or he could do as he's done and post in depth and honestly about the music business, world issues etc ....and show us the real Eric....like he's done.

It's a no-brainer (to me at least) that the 2nd option is far superior.  I'd hate it if Eric resorted to "smiling and signing autographs" here on this site.  So it's to his credit he writes honestly and in depth, even if it risks the loss of a fan or 2.  This is to his credit.

IMHO,

James

[James]

If your father and your brother get into it and the brother leaves the family, it's an issue for the family, I think.  I don't think it's normal just to pretend it never happened and never talk about it.

Though I get where you are coming from Nancy, and your point is also correct. 

James

[Kirk]

It is beyond comprehension how accessible Eric has been over the years.  I have pinched myself so many times I have a permanent red mark on my arm!  For a fan like me, this has been a dream come true.  I have so much to be thankful for!! 

Marvin is a huge fan of Raspberries and most things Eric.  We've been at Raspberries concerts and I've talked to him on the phone several times. 

To me, this is a sad situation.  But, it's not my situation.  I would hope Eric and Marvin would work it out.  It happened once before.  I know one thing, this website is my home, and I'm not going anywhere!    

[Nancy]

My own personal thoughts on this and what I have experienced in life while being on this earth: No matter what the problem maybe, things seem to have their way of just working themselves out, in time....."We" also have the built in capabilities to forgive or forget, "if" "we" choose too. We also have ours paths "we" walk through in life, however, my thoughts, again........"we" all look and feel much better when "we" stand tall and never lose our warm and friendly smiles..........

~~~Nancy.~~~

[Lew Bundles]

This post was deleted by poster....Probably not a good idea...

[James]

(Lew is practicing up for his moderator gig)

[MikeC]

Marvin can encourage Wally. Fans here are amongst the greatest in the world. Incredibly with fewer people.

I hope Wally can get back to his roots, or songs that he liked, early in his career. Maybe a CD lie, "Wally and Friends Play Badfinger, The Choir, etc." Something he would really enjoy. And how about Christmas songs, with a violin riff, like he plays on guitar. Wally played violin, which would bring him back to his music beginnings. A riff intro to 'Away In A Manger'

It would have been better if Kay responded to The Raspberries fans with just a correction, Like, the article that the fans were upset about was written months ago. Not intended to coincide with Eric's new CD.

And for Wally, it really is a Brand New Year. Heck, he even gets paid for past work. That's pretty cool of Eric.

But Wally nissed the whole prospective of the years past. Everyone wrote songs, but The Record Label wanted certain songs, for the best of the band, they felt.

So, hopefully, more songs later for Wally.

[Eric Carmen]

For everyone here, I'm going to try to give you a reasonable explanation.

As you are well aware, Wally and I ( and now Kay, because she has become Wally's "public defender" ) have had "issues" for a very, very long time. This is not an unusual situation in bands. Mick and Keith, Pete and Roger, John and Paul and George have all had "issues", and often have commented about them, publicly. Since Bernie created this website, in 1997, and I became aware of it, there have been many discussions about all sorts of things, politics, religion and music among them.

For years, I tried to "take the high road" when it came to conversations about the band. I understand how important the band is to all of you, and to me, too. I never wanted to say bad things about anyone, partly out of respect for the band, partly because I didn't want to cause divisiveness among the people who come here, and partly because it's just not my style. For better or worse, I usually go for diplomacy over "cheap shots."

On the evening before the first reunion show, in 2004, the Brysons invited Marvin over for Thanksgiving dinner. They took that opportunity to air all of their dirty laundry, and all of their grievances with me, with Marvin, as they have done with countless others over the past 42 years. For whatever reason, Marvin bought what they were selling, and what they were selling was the same, tired lies ( about the intro of "Go All The Way" and every other "problem" ) that they have been telling anyone who would listen, for years.

Marvin has very strong musical opinions, and has never been shy about stating them on this message board. Some of those "opinions" were really unnecessary, and hurtful. Whether Marvin likes "Winter Dreams" or the Geffen album, I think it is nothing short of bad manners to continually post disparaging comments about "She Remembered" or "The Way We Used To Be" on this message board. Ostensibly, he was coming here because of things he "liked".

Why he felt the need to post about how much he hated something, over and over again, is beyond me. He had to know I was reading these messages, and personally, I felt like they were a slap in the face. In spite of this, when I met Marvin for the first time, I gave him a hug and posed for pictures with him. Opinions are, after all, just opinions.

At some point, I became aware of the fact that Marvin was now Wally's "champion." I also became aware of the fact that Marvin had a tendency to post things on Kay's Facebook page that continued to "stir up" the waters. 

After the "Shindig Magazine" interview, where, given a soap box, Wally once again chose to take the "low road" and say mean-spirited things about me, followed by Kay venting her own venom on her Facebook page, I just got sick of it.

The things I have said about Wally on this message board, believe it or not, have been extremely measured. No one here knows what was going on behind the scenes 40 years ago. Wally knows, and Jim knows, and Dave knows, and Scot knows, and Michael knows, and I know, and each member of the band brings their own "perception", right or wrong, to the party. Marvin doesn't know anything more than whatever Wally and Kay told him, and that has been colored by 40 years of anger and bitterness. A while back, I became tired of Marvin reporting back to Wally and Kay about things I may have said in response to things Wally had said publicly in "Shindig Magazine."

I called him on it. Period. If he has now chosen to stop posting here that's his business. It's not the first time Marvin has left this board. 

I think it's a shame that, instead of focusing on positive things, his commentary was often insulting. I would liken it to inviting someone to your home for dinner, and having them wipe their muddy boots on your carpeting, and complain about the food.

There are literally HUNDREDS of stories I could have shared, but chose not to. I'd rather celebrate the band than say negative things about the members.

e

[AnneNR]

Very well said, Mr. Carmen.

Your insights are a balancing factor, and while I do not expect you to explain anything -- I appreciate your opening up candidly on different subjects here on EC.com. 

I can see clearly you try to be a gentleman and walk in integrity if at all possible about people and the music business, sometimes to your own detriment it seems.  It must be testing the limits at times for you.  Hopefully, these times will pass and you'll have much better ones waiting for you . . . after all, as you said  --it's a "Brand New Year"     Anything's possible !!

AnneNR

6  6
__/

[blackhawkpat]

I have seen many posters on here say that they don't know Marvin, but I can say I do, and he is a great guy, terrific father, and one of the most knowledgeable music historians (I know, I know, he doesn't have the official title, but it fits) I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. I think that too many assumptions are being made here on his feelings and too many "he told me you said" and "he told me she said" third party stories stories have spread regarding his opinions on Eric's music. If anyone thinks he does not like or respect it, they are completely wrong.

As a musician, Marvin has the greatest respect in the world for Eric. We have had literally hundreds of conversations in the past seventeen years, whether on the phone, in person, or on the internet, about Raspberries/Eric Carmen music and with the exception of one album, "Winter Dreams", which he has the right to not like, I can't recall him ever talking down about the music. Marvin and I have very similar tastes in listening, but "Winter Dreams" is one of the few records we don't agree upon and we have also had many "arguments" over it. I love it and he does not. it's that simple and there is nothing wrong with him not liking a record. 

I'm not saying I wish everything and everyone here was lollipops and unicorns, but just wish it was like the early days of this site, when the only arguments were just about music and the personal stuff stayed out of it. We had plenty of thought provoking conversations then and many disagreements, but there just seemed to be more respect. It's fine to have some fun, too, but let's not spread what people "think" they believe to be true, unless you hear it from the horse's mouth.

[Catnip]

I posted that I do not know Marvin and that is true. However, the things I mentioned were things that Marvin himself posted. So they were straight from the horse's mouth. I also believe the same is true for what Eric has written as well. I know he is your friend, and I know people don't have to agree with everyone else's opinions. I am just saying that there is no reason to be rude.

[blackhawkpat]

I one hundred percent agree with you (I hadn't seen Eric's or Anne's response for some reason, when I wrote mine). I forgot about MM not caring for the two Geffen album ballads that EC mentioned. That being said, I still thinks MM likes those tunes, just not to the level that we all do. There is a running joke on Facebook among former members here that always asks which is better, "Tonight" or "Ecstasy"? It comes from an old argument on here and has just carried on through the years. EVERYONE loves them both, but we still "battle" over which is better. If someone posts the one, usually it is quickly followed by "....is still better" (whatever is the other song) It's just like an "argh argh" joke between oldtimers. I mean, if you asked me to rank the albums by the Beatles or Raspberries in order, something has to be at the bottom, but it's still miles ahead of virtually anything else, so that doesn't mean I don't like it. I think that is how he feels about those Geffen songs.

Truth be told, aside from Facebook posts, with likes or comments, Marvin told me many months ago, he has not had any contact with the Brysons in almost four years, so he is not running them information. One might also notice that the famous FB post of Kay's that eventually found it's way here, you will see that while Marvin did "like" it, so did twelve other long time posters. I was not one of them because I hate all the fighting and did not agree with everything that was said, even though I commented in the thread. I mentioned there just like I say here, "I like 'em both...wish they could get along, but clearly they can't, so I support their solo projects instead". I hold all parties in the highest regard.

[MikeD]

Have to add my two cents. Eric,I agree, one can only take so much and then you must address the issue. There's no need for someone to start problems with your personal affairs. Your friendships and relationships are your business. Some people cross the line of being a fan. Ignore ignorance.