Eric denied again

[Matthew C. Clark]

It seems that The Songwriters Hall Of Fame has declined about Eric Carmen who is NOT in once again. Matt

[Jerry]

This might be a case of, 'What have you done lately?'...

[december25]

Totally sucks...what are they thinking??

[Les R.]

This is absolutely outrageous. Those SHOF people must be totally brain dead. Half of the people on their list I never even heard of. Eric has personally sung on 20 charting singles, all of which he himself wrote (or co-wrote), and has been responsible for 8-10 Top 10 hits (depending on whether you use Billboard or Cash Box), in addition to some country hits. That is all besides the fact that his songs have been used by scores of great artists across four decades! He is a musical legend. They seriously need to get a clue.

[marvin]

Les, who haven't you heard of? Just about everyone on the "rock" list is very well-known.

[Jerry]

This is absolutely outrageous. Those SHOF people must be totally brain dead. Half of the people on their list I never even heard of.

I never heard of Ne-Yo... turns out not only is he very accomplished, (In 2009, Billboard ranked him as the 57th Artist of the 2000s decade) but after checking him out on YouTube, he's pretty good -

[Jerry]

However, it seems to me that 'All By Myself' would certainly qualify for -

The Towering Song Award, presented to the creators of an individual song that has influenced our culture in a unique way over many years, was presented to Mike Stoller, Jerry Leiber and Ben E. King for “Stand By Me.â€

[Les R.]

Unlike much of Ne-Yo's other "stuff," that actually IS a quite good song, Jerry! Too bad it was only able to reach #87!! Unreal... It's from Nov. of 2010.

[Les R.]

Marvin, I will brush up on the identities of some of those folks just a bit before I bare my ignorance for public display. The names of writers are usually less recognizable than those of performers.

It just irks me that even though Earth, Wind & Fire has fewer Top 10 hits to their credit than does EC "all by himself," yet they have 5 songwriters on the list for the same set of accomplishments. Just doesn't seem right.

[James]

Eric Carmen is my favorite song-writer of alltime.

I don´t follow this stuff, but I do know Eric Carmen should be in any pop/rock song-writers Hall of Fame, not because he´s my favorite, but for 2 other reasons:

1. He wrote a lot of songs that made it to albums

2. Virtually every song he wrote is good - great (more great than good).

IMHO,

James

[LatetotheParty]

2. Virtually every song he wrote is good - great (more great than good).

IMHO,

James

If you really stop and think about James' item #2...that is an awesome accomplishment. I wonder how many other songwriters' material could meet that high standard song after song after song.

Of course, I have no idea what qualifies someone for the Songwriters HOF, but, undoubtedly craft is secondary to politics (as is typical of "Halls of Fame..")

Succinctly stated, James.

Jean

[blackhawkpat]

Considering Lennon-McCartney didn't make it until 1987 and Jagger-Richards weren't in until 1993, I doubt if Eric is too concerned about this. It would be nice (and justified) to see him in, but I'm sure he knows the politics of these awards.

[James]

If you really stop and think about James' item #2...that is an awesome accomplishment. I wonder how many other songwriters' material could meet that high standard song after song after song.

Yes, I agree 100% Late, virtually nobody for my taste except for Henley/Frey. But they were a duo, and no way either one of them could have accomplished what they did alone. I think that was proven out after the Eagles broke up.

Elton John was inhuman with his output between 1969 and 1976, but even he (IMHO) was not as consistent as Eric Carmen. IE: Elton had a bunch of songs I didn´t like. Eric Carmen had 2 songs I did not like ("You Need Some Lovin" and "Tonight You´re Mine").

Out of 10 studio albums+... only TWO songs I didn´t like!

Pretty amazing.

James

[Wendy-Ann]

I was lucky enough to spend the day with Muzza and Kiwi as well as Al Kaston and Jim and Barb Bonfanti at the Rock Hall of Fame.

Upon finding the Ohio section of the Hall and all of us knowing that though Raspberries memorabilia was on display, they had yet to be inducted, I remember leaning over towards Jim and saying something like:

An award is just something someone made up and gives to someone. But if you look in any Rock history book, your name is in there, and no one can erase what you did. Even if someone took a Rock history book and tore it apart, your name would still be in the next one and the next one and the one after that. Sure, it’s great to get an award, but no one can give you what you have already accomplished. Just because you don’t have an award doesn’t mean you didn’t do what it takes to earn that award. You’ve done more than others could even dream about in a lifetime and it’s all documented---forever.

As for Eric.

Sure. I think he deserves this award.

But.

No award can tell me what I (and many, many others) already know.

That he is a brilliant song writer.

I guess I’m not big on awards if I really think about it. But that's just me. Everyone has their own take on them.

[LatetotheParty]

Yes, I agree 100% Late, virtually nobody for my taste except for Henley/Frey. But they were a duo, and no way either one of them could have accomplished what they did alone. I think that was proven out after the Eagles broke up.

Elton John was inhuman with his output between 1969 and 1976, but even he (IMHO) was not as consistent as Eric Carmen. IE: Elton had a bunch of songs I didn´t like. Eric Carmen had 2 songs I did not like ("You Need Some Lovin" and "Tonight You´re Mine").

Out of 10 studio albums+... only TWO songs I didn´t like!

Pretty amazing.

James

Hahaha James...funny you should mention both the Eagles and Elton..I completely agree with Elton..his sheer numbers of great songs...and as for the Eagles, I am a huge fan...but Henley and Frey collaborated with others and their stuff, although much was great and classic, was not as consistent as Eric's songs IMHO (again being a HUGE fan..I own all their stuff..)

As for your 2 songs you don't like...I agree with one of your choices, but I LOVE "Tonight Your Mine!!" LOL

Jean

[LatetotheParty]

Upon finding the Ohio section of the Hall and all of us knowing that though Raspberries memorabilia was on display, they had yet to be inducted, I remember leaning over towards Jim and saying something like:

An award is just something someone made up and gives to someone. But if you look in any Rock history book, your name is in there, and no one can erase what you did. Even if someone took a Rock history book and tore it apart, your name would still be in the next one and the next one and the one after that. Sure, it’s great to get an award, but no one can give you what you have already accomplished. Just because you don’t have an award doesn’t mean you didn’t do what it takes to earn that award. You’ve done more than others could even dream about in a lifetime and it’s all documented---forever.

Cool story Wendy...how great that you were able to share your feelings directly with Jim. There is no question that Raspberries left their mark on Rock History. I think Bruce Springsteen summed it up so perfectly when he said "What they did, they did brilliantly." Whether or not they are ever given any awards or recognitions into the future, they must be proud of what they did accomplish and the wonderful catalog they will leave us with.

Jean

[Jerry]

Well, here is the answer/explanation -

http://songhall.org/join

We all just have to join (and by join, I mean pay to join) the Songwriters Hall of Fame, nominate Eric, then vote him in... simple!

[marvin]

Marvin, I will brush up on the identities of some of those folks just a bit before I bare my ignorance for public display. The names of writers are usually less recognizable than those of performers.

It just irks me that even though Earth, Wind & Fire has fewer Top 10 hits to their credit than does EC "all by himself," yet they have 5 songwriters on the list for the same set of accomplishments. Just doesn't seem right.

Les I apologize if I misunderstood your statement above, but are you saying that EW&F have had fewer Top 10 hits than Eric? If so, you are wrong. Granted "ABM" has become somewhat of a historic song, EW&F have placed the following songs in the Top 10 of the Billboard Top 40 charts:

1. Shining Star (gold + sales, and #1)

2. Sing A Song (gold + sales, and #5)

3. Got to Get You Into My Life (gold + sales, and #9)

4. September (gold + sales, and #8)

5. Boogie Wonderland (gold + sales and #6)

6. After the Love is Gone (gold + sales and #2)

7. Let's Groove (gold + sales, and #3)

This list doesn't even include the many hits that made it to the higher regions of the R&B charts. I'm not saying Eric is not deserving of induction into this Hall, but I will say that Maurice White & the other writers within EW&F are deserving.

[marvin]

Originally Posted By: LatetotheParty

If you really stop and think about James' item #2...that is an awesome accomplishment. I wonder how many other songwriters' material could meet that high standard song after song after song.

Yes, I agree 100% Late, virtually nobody for my taste except for Henley/Frey. But they were a duo, and no way either one of them could have accomplished what they did alone. I think that was proven out after the Eagles broke up.

James

James, I'll disagree with your Henley-Frey statement above. Don has gone on to write many great songs outside of the Eagles, many which are probably (lyrically) stronger than the Eagles songs. Frey on the other hand....

[LatetotheParty]

Jerry,

Thanks for the link. I just scanned the inductees under "Rock and Roll" and was surprised at a few names (not for accomplishment, but rather for style of music...)

Barry Manilow

Richard and Robert Sherman (as in famous for Disney hits among others)

Very interesting!

Jean

[LatetotheParty]

James, I'll disagree with your Henley-Frey statement above. Don has gone on to write many great songs outside of the Eagles, many which are probably (lyrically) stronger than the Eagles songs. Frey on the other hand....

Marvin..good point about Frey/Henley. Don Henley was a literature buff as a young man and is a strong lyricist. Almost every song on his first 4 solo LPs, however, was co-written with at least one other person.

I know I am preaching to the choir here, but Eric's solo compositions for Raspberries, his Debut solo LP, and the big 80s hits are plenty to qualify him for songwriting kudos...not to mentioned the genius of the largely ignored Boats LP...

Jean

[marvin]

Originally Posted By: marvin

James, I'll disagree with your Henley-Frey statement above. Don has gone on to write many great songs outside of the Eagles, many which are probably (lyrically) stronger than the Eagles songs. Frey on the other hand....

Marvin..good point about Frey/Henley. Don Henley was a literature buff as a young man and is a strong lyricist. Almost every song on his first 4 solo LPs, however, was co-written with at least one other person.

I know I am preaching to the choir here, but Eric's solo compositions for Raspberries, his Debut solo LP, and the big 80s hits are plenty to qualify him for songwriting kudos...not to mentioned the genius of the largely ignored Boats LP...

Jean

I'm not taking anything away from Eric. Unlike James, there are more than two songs of his songs that I don't like. However, while I still believe he deserves to be listed among the greatest Pop / Rock songwriters, the facts remain: the majority of the listening audience couldn't name you more than 3-5 of his songs, and it's only when given hints or prodded would they be able to name more.

On the "success scale" of his songs that still get decent airplay today (at least in my part of the world), you will find "Go All the Way", "All By Myself", probably "Almost Paradise", and maybe "Make Me Lose Control." The other big hits like "I Wanna Be With You" and "Never Gonna Fall..." never get played anymore and are out of the consciousness of the average music listener.

While I certainly can't prove this, I would guess that for every song Henley ever co-wrote, he was the primary lyricist. That's his strength. Henley/Frey and EW&F (just using these two as examples) are on a another level of popularity and success, and certainly are deserving to be included in any Honor Roll.

As far as knocking this Hall or the Rock Hall because of what they do or don't do, I'll never forget a quote Linda Ronstadt made many, many years ago upon learning she was nominated for a Grammy, "Awards are for racehorses." Still, we all react happily when one of our racehorses wins

[LatetotheParty]

Marvin,

No one can argue the immense commercial success of Henley/Frey (remember, I too, am one of those big Eagle fans..). I was merely agreeing that Don Henley is an excellent lyricist but did not write alone.

All of us on this board know that Eric is an excellent solo songwriter and gifted musician. Unfortunately, he was also an under-achiever in terms of major commerical success. So, this will keep him off of many "lists."

Jean

[James]

Neil Peart wrote virtually every lyric for every Rush song after the first album. But I don´t consider him a great song writer, nor even A song-writer, he was a poet.

I´m speaking from (unlike Late) a perspective of some ignorance as I don´t know all of Henley´s solo stuff, but having said that, I believe that even if Henley (as a solo artist) had written by himself every song he recorded, he had a lot of duds (IMHO).... where as Eric Carmen didn´t.

I love Henley, but in regards to writing a melody (and I believe the melody is 80% of what we love in a song), he can´t hold a candle to Eric Carmen as a song/melody writer.

Of course it´s all subjective, but that´s my opinion.

James

[marvin]

Marvin,

No one can argue the immense commercial success of Henley/Frey (remember, I too, am one of those big Eagle fans..). I was merely agreeing that Don Henley is an excellent lyricist but did not write alone.

All of us on this board know that Eric is an excellent solo songwriter and gifted musician. Unfortunately, he was also an under-achiever in terms of major commerical success. So, this will keep him off of many "lists."

Jean

I don't think that "under-achiever" is the right word here. Maybe lack of product to keep his name in the public's eye would be a better description. Eric certainly put out some top notch music, and if anything, it was the music business that under-achieved when it came to promoting him.