I Can Remember - Why It's Not In My Top 20

[PaulMaul]

When I recently listed my Raspberries/EC Top 20 and didn't include this song, there were a couple of incredulous reactions. I want to explain why it's not one of my favorites, because I like discussing music. Obviously, I intend no disrespect in anything I say here. It's just my honest take.

SHORT VERSION: in my opinion, the song is much longer than it needs to be. As a result, it is less focused and less coherent than I believe it could have been had it been streamlined.

DETAILS: I think the first 30 seconds of piano intro are unnecessary. The song could jump right into the first verse. I also think the piano interludes between verses are unnecessary padding, and slow the song down. After the second verse, there are actually two repeats of the interlude. I think one would be enough to transition into the second part of the song. So this first part could be 1:10 shorter with no loss to me.

The second part is my favorite part of the song, and everything is A-OK with me right up through "every time I think of you and him together I break down and cry."

I would pretty much end the song there, maybe with a fade-out. The part that begins around 5:50 was great when re-worked into "Marathon Man", but seems unrelated to the rest of the song. The part that begins around 6:30 would have made a nice piece of a Renaissance song, but again seems unrelated to the rest. The last minute of fadeout seems over-long too.

I think this song would be among my absolute favorites at around 4:40. At 8 minutes, it just seems too long and frankly, seems to have some of the attributes of progressive rock songs that many around here deride.

Differing opinions welcomed.

[Kirk]

I can see the points you're making...having said that, I have a different perspective of the song in part because I grew up listening to the song from the time of the 1st albums release.

At the time, I thought it was very ambitious...showcasing something other than their pop sensibilities...not unlike something the Moody Blues or Beatles would throw into the mix back then.

When I heard it in person at HOB Sunset Strip, it was a grand opus-of a different kind than Overnight Sensation, but a grand opus none the less- and every movement made perfect sense. It was spectacular!

Top 20? YES!!

[Reid C.]

Uh-oh, Paul. Is that thin ice I hear cracking? Most assuredly a Top Twenty for me and I will go even further and say it is in the top three of my all time favorites. I always liked the opening. Sort of sets the mood for the first part of the song. As far as the piano interlude between the verses, well, I might agree about the second interlude repeat as being somewhat redundant, but it has never bothered me all that much. I do like the piano bits and think they add to the general feel of melancholy and wistfulness that flows through the first section of the song.

I hate fade outs and have always thought that the wrap up on ICR is one of the best. Keep in mind that this is really a three part song, with the slow ballady intro, a rock oriented middle, and a full blown rock and orchestral ending that tapers off to a definite finish (do you like the final ending chord of the live version, or the original album cut without?). Best of all worlds really, and if it takes eight minutes to do it, so be it. It is sort of a trading off of commercial success for the pure joy and art of the music. Sure, this was out of the norm for "the formula," but that was OK. There were plenty of other songs in the Raspberries catalog that covered the power pop theme. I never got the progressive rock feel, but thought of it as an example of what a robust young band could do when they flexed their musical muscles. Faults? Yes, there are some, but it is a 'berries song like no other and it has brought tears to my eyes twice live (and more than a few others I noted). A certified gem even if there are a few flaws. Good post, Paul.

Good post.

Don't even go after Starting Over!

[Kirk]

Starting Over is perfect...and in my top 3!

Actually, PM, if ICR had ever been considered for a single, your editing would have worked!

[PaulMaul]

Reid C. said:

Don't even go after Starting Over!

Don't worry, I love Starting Over. As a matter of fact, the only reason I even consider it noteworthy when I find an EC song in any way flawed is because for the most part they are almost preternaturally perfect.

[James]

Great posts, especially Reid's, great stuff Reid!.

Even my friend Paul, the blasphemous- heathen- infidel (  )..even his blasphemous post was a great one.

But funny, I see it 180degrees from you Paul. I see it like Kirk and Reid. "I Can Remember" has always jumped around in my top 3 Eric Carmen songs. Though as Kirk said, maybe your version would have been a great 45 for radio.

Anyway, my main point is that the stuff you don't like in the song MAKE the song for me. The intro is stunningingly moving and gives most listeners shivers every time they here it proclaiming the beginning of a pop masterpiece.

Thanks though Paul. I love your posts, I love your insights, you're a thinker!..

James

[James]

P.S.

Viva la RUSH!..

James

[marathon mama]

PaulMaul said:

Differing opinions welcomed.

'I Can Remember' is brilliant! I can't rank Eric's songs since I love them all so much, but there are certain characteristics about "I Can Remember" that are undeniably magnificent, and deserves a long response from me. The following you tube video shows a practically perfect performance of the song live, even though the camera misses the other Raspberries through most of it:

[PaulMaul]

I can already see this going the way of my comments on Paul McCartney. I hope this doesn't turn into me thinking it's a bad song. I like it in many ways, it just doesn't hang together as well for me as it does for, well, everyone else here.

[Kirk]

I guess I missed your Macca thread...your thoughts and opinions on this song are very well articulated and not at all misunderstood. We are a passionate lot when it comes to Eric's music, especially certain songs for certain individuals (I knew Reid would come to the rescue of this one).

It's pretty amazing to think Eric was only 21 or 22 when he put this together.

[Reid C.]

 Kirk knows me too well, Paul. Hey, it takes two horses to make a race and your take on ICR is most valid and well received. I'd still be happy to buy you a beer at the next EC concert!

[Raspbernie]

My favorite lyric (among many) in an Eric Carmen-penned song:

In the spring the sun will shine

And make the ice surrender

But it will not warm my heart

As long as I remember

Bernie

[raspathens]

I always liked the original recording where Jim goes apes*it on the drums at the end. Beautiful soaring melody juxaposed with a frantic yet powerful drum piece. That captures the final lament of the song - depression has set in now and he realizes that despite his memories, she is really gone. Forever. A depressed mind is often a racing mind and those racing drums communicate that idea to me. They hurt so good....

[Wendy-Ann]

Kirk said:

I guess I missed your Macca thread...your thoughts and opinions on this song are very well articulated and not at all misunderstood. We are a passionate lot when it comes to Eric's music, especially certain songs for certain individuals (I knew Reid would come to the rescue of this one).

It's pretty amazing to think Eric was only 21 or 22 when he put this together.

Exactly Kirk!

I too am always open to different opinions whether I agree, somewhat agree or don't agree.

And on that note...

For me this is like Bohemian Rhapsody. Edit anything that doesn't change the dynamics of the song...it would still be great. But it wouldn't be brilliant.

This song to me is a brilliant piece of musical art.

From the intro to the fade out. My mind is somewhere else when I listen to it, like when I go to an art museum and sit alone and just "feel" a flow of emotions while viewing a painting. When listening to this song, I am overwhelmed by "emotion."

So...I suppose Eric Carmen knew exactly what he was doing...after all, we are still talking about him, this piece and his music...so many years later.

[S_O_L]

well, i dont know nuttin bout no music, cept whether or not it sounds purty...and lemme tell ya, that piano intro is down right purty

[Reid C.]

"Now who can argue with that?"

[Brian Mc Carthy]

IN my opinion, it is a very sincere epic ballad that takes you on an emotional journey.So it needs to be of a longer duration. THE song if done in a shorter version would compromise the emotion that revolves around it.

[BlondeVelvet]

PaulMaul,

I completely respect your feelings & opinion of I Can Remember. As they say...to each their own.

But, I disagree.

For me, a shortened, single version of ICR, without the beautiful piano interludes would be the same as the shortened, single version of All By Myself, with the beautiful piano interlude omitted. The single of ABM was ok, but give me the extended version every time. I even used to listened to ABM on my album (Jeez, I'm old!) in the faster 45rpm, instead of 33 sometimes. The piano interlude is still great, though Eric's voice does sound like he had a touch of helium.

I also love the faster rock oriented ending of ICR. It reminds me of the faster paced ending of Runaway. In fact, I've always viewed ICR as a precursor for Runaway. Eric's slower, lush piano dominating the beginning and middle, culminating in the faster, and fantastically climactic ending of Runaway.

In conclusion, I guess I would be ok with a shortened, single version of ICR, as long as I have the option of listening to the long version instead, like ABM.

But, Runaway is perfect. Please, everybody leave this masterpiece alone!!

Again, respectfully, just my opinion.

Kim

[LC]

Paul, great thread, as always, and well-constructed thoughts. But count me as one who puts "I Can Remember" in the upper stratosphere of Eric songs. I remember getting sucked into this song on a pair of headphones (a cheap pair of headphones!) late at night when I was a senior in high school, and it made an immediate impact on me. In fact, I would put it on five or six times in a row (which takes almost an hour!) and just absorb it. The intro is beautiful (how else to describe it?), and the mid-tempo part practically gets up and runs, and the ending is a great flurry....

To me, it all hangs together, and I wouldn't want to hear it edited down. (I used to hate hearing "Layla" without the long "dueling-guitar-solos" ending, but it often got that treatment on the radio.)

I would just say that for me (and some others here, it sounds like), the appeal of "I Can Remember" comes from an emotional connection we made because of when (i.e., the time in our lives) we first heard it.

But I totally understand your side of it, and I appreciate it.

(In a way, it's kind of like when people say that the Beatles' White Album should have been edited down to a single album. I was always on the "purist" side of it — don't mess with Lennon & McCartney! But I totally understand the thought process of "trimming the fat" to make a single powerhouse, world-class, top-of-the-line Beatles album, rather than a really, really good, sometimes great, always interesting Beatles double album.)

Best,

Larry

[Wendy-Ann]

LC said:

But I totally understand your side of it, and I appreciate it.

LC, you hit the nail on the head. I first heard this in 2007, right after my Daddy passed away. 8 weeks later, I saw the band for the first time.

I then played it for my sister, who cried when she heard it and asked for it on her iPod. In her eulogy, I quoted the second verse.

Then I listened to it on youtube while visiting Cleveland in Oct. A wonderful time for me.

I this song...

[PaulMaul]

This thread illustrates that music is very subjective, no matter how analytical critics and reviewers try to be. It's true I never heard a Raspberries song until 2007, so obviously I'm coming at this from a very different perspective than those who were on the case in 1972.

No matter how you slice it, if Kansas produces a 9 minute song with multiple parts, which is well conceived, melodic, and beautifully played, it will be self-indulgent, bombastic and overblown. If Eric does the same, those negatives all become positives.

I guess it's just human nature. If you love an artist, they can do little wrong, and if you decide you don't like an artist, they can do little right.

C'est la vie!

[Wendy-Ann]

No matter how you slice it, if Kansas produces a 9 minute song with multiple parts, which is well conceived, melodic, and beautifully played, it will be self-indulgent, bombastic and overblown. If Eric does the same, those negatives all become positives.

Maybe for some Dave, but not for me. I can be subjective no matter who the artist is. I just happen to love every second of this song and can't think of changing it in the least. But that's just me. As you stated: C'est la vie!

[Reid C.]

Admittedly, when someone reaches "favored artist" status, you might think that the devotee could be inclined to give the artist a pass on his lesser efforts or look at all offerings with, shall we say, "rose colored glasses." I tend to go the opposite way, being critical, but fair when it comes to bands or acts that I frequent. Not trying to be picayune, but I think I tend to hold them to a higher standard. While both Raspberries and Eric have offered up some songs that I consider off the mark, overall their catalogs have been filled with some truly excellent and definitive music. That having been said, I do try to keep an open mind when it comes to other artists. Good music is just that, regardless of who pens and performs it. Sadly, there isn't enough of it these days or, for that matter, good musicians. Still, it is amazing what you can find if you listen for it. The negative aspects of human nature can be trumped by an open mind.

ICR is flawed, too long to be commercial and tries to cram a lot of things into one song to name a couple of things. But it is a marker in time that showcases well the raw talent and willingness to take a chance by a young, up and coming, band from Cleveland. It is a powerful piece of work, and after all these years, still rates as one of my Top Three.

Just to show how differently we can view things, my mother watched and listened to ICR on the DVD and had this to say.

"What a beautiful song, right up until the rock and roll part."

[PaulMaul]

To clarify, I don't doubt the sincerity of everyone who loves this song, loves everything Eric ever did, or whatever they love.

My brother is obsessed with a songwriter named Peter Hammill. The guy has been making records since 1968. His style has changed and evolved a lot. Some of it I like, some not at all. Without exception, when he puts out a new record my brother calls me and tells me how great it is.

In a way it makes sense. When you really love an artist, they become like a companion and advisor. If someone familiar and trusted shows me something, I'm more likely to take it seriously than if it comes from a stranger. I'm also more likely to look for the best and ignore some flaws in someone I love.

[Wendy-Ann]

PaulMaul said:

In a way it makes sense. When you really love an artist, they become like a companion and advisor. If someone familiar and trusted shows me something, I'm more likely to take it seriously than if it comes from a stranger. I'm also more likely to look for the best and ignore some flaws in someone I love.

Hi Dave,

I know I didn't need any clarification. I totally understood what you were saying, no worries. But that is why I wanted to convey that I can be objective no matter who the artist is, whether I like them or not. It just so happens that I love every second of ICR.