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James

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..this time.

About a year ago I came on here and stated I wouldn't trade Derek Rose for Lebron James. I also stated I believed in the long run, Derek Rose would become a better player than Lebron, that Derek not only had amazing physical skills, but he had an intangible I'd not seen yet in Lebron. I believed history eventually would look back and rate Derek a greater player than Lebron.

I was laughed off the site (slight exageration there)...laughed off politely though!..

:-)

Anyway, I thought it might take a few years before my Derek Rose - Lebron James prediction would became evident. But it's happened quicker than I thought.

I'll make this statement today: It's only been a year, but Derek Rose already has made my prediction come true.

If you judge a player by how he affects his team's wins & losses, Derek Rose is now a better basketball player than Lebron James.

The 6th Century B.C. had their Jeremiah. You guys, in 2011... have your James (that's me).

:-)

Signed,

James smart.. (the prophet)..

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I don't doubt that Derrick Rose may be a better all-around player than LeBron. As a pure point guard, he's in a better position to influence the flow of the game and his team than is James, who seems to play 2-3 positions per game.

However, not sure how you can say that he has more of an impact on his team's wins and losses than James. The Bulls were 33-49 the year before drafting him. They increased their wins to 41 the next year, stood pat at 41 his second year, and are on course for 57 wins this year at their current pace (34-15). He's also got 3 potential all-stars for a front court in Noah, Deng & Boozer, the latter picked up this past off-season.

In comparison - James took a 17-65 team to 35 wins his first year, then 42, then 50, another 50, a slight regression to 45, but then the Cavs won 66 and 61 during his 6th and 7th seasons. This entire time, I believe one other Cav made an all-star team - Ilgauskas.

And lest anyone think that James wasn't behind a boatload of those wins....Since he flew the coop for Miami, the Cavs, who returned either 7 or 8 players from last year's roster, including Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison, arguably their 2nd & 3rd best players from 2009-10, are on a course to win 13 games this year (8-43 now) - after 61 last year!

Even if Rose has more of an influence on his current team than James does on Miami....and frankly, the jury's out on that, since LeBron's only played part of one season there (and Miami is on-course to win 59 games, up from 47 last year, but they also got Chris Bosh...), I think it's indisputable that James has had a much bigger influence on his previous team's losses. My guess is - if Rose got hurt or, God forbid, left the Bulls, they wouldn't fall to last place in the entire league. The Cavs have.

P.S. While he's been hurt a bit so far this season, rookie John Wall of the Wizards is very close to Rose in physical skills, although I doubt that Washington management will ever get him a supporting cast like the Bulls have now.

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One more interesting Bulls stat for this year, relating to signing Carlos Boozer. In the 18 games he's missed completely, plus his first 2 games back, when he played limited minutes, the Bulls have gone 11-9. In the 30 he's started, they've gone 23-7. (Now 34-16, lost to Portland last night.) Boozer's been extremely lucky, playing with Deron Williams for the past 5 years, and now Rose - arguably the 2 best point guards in the league.

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"I think LeBron is by far the best player in the league...And I'm not exactly a fan."

In terms of sheer raw talent, no question.....hasn't been anyone with his level of talent since Kobe was young. LeBron could realistically play either forward or guard position at an all-star level, and is strong enough to make a decent center, if needed.

James' (not LeBron) contention here, though, is that Derrick Rose's play has more of an impact on whether his team wins or loses than LeBron's play does.......which is an interesting proposition, only because LeBron's in Miami now. IMO, if he were still in Cleveland, this is a no-brainer. When Michael Jordan, arguably the 2nd winningest player in NBA history (behind Bill Russell) left the Bulls to go play minor league baseball, the Bulls still made the playoffs the next year without him. The Cavs with LeBron won 61 last year - they'll likely win 13-15 or so this year.

Rose is one of the 2-3 best point guards in the NBA now. But he also has a really good supporting cast, which makes it very difficult, to me, to make the case that he's a better all-around player than LeBron, as far as affecting wins/losses, making your teammates play better, etc. On the other hand, LeBron doesn't have to do the heavy lifting now that he used to while on the Cavs.

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Yeah, nothing is in stone and the jury is still out, for sure JohnO. I hear what you guys are saying. Though I'll stick to my first statement.

Noah and Boozer were out for extended periods this season. The Bulls played at least several games without both Boozer and Noah. And they continued to win. Rose was amazing during these stretches.

Their coach gets credit too . As do the other players. Obviously.

I'm a big believer that chemistry, team culture and attitude is the most important element to winning. This Bulls team has all this stuff and then some. Derek Rose is a big reason. His team feeds off his humility and team oriented approach to the game. He's also a warrior with tremendous physical skills who works his butt of in the off season to get better each year. He's only 22, he'll be even so much better in the years to come.

There are intangibles you see in winners. Magic, Larry Bird, Tom Brady, Vince Young had it in college. These types of guys just get it done. They will their teams to win.

Rose has this same intangible. Rose will never quit in 2 games of a playoff series with the Boston Celtics (see last year's Cleveland series). Rose will WILL his team to win if winning is possible. That's kind of what I mean by intangible.

Lebron is amazing. But I (today) don't trust him to come through always when you need him to come through. I trust Rose.

We'll see fellas!..

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I'm a big believer that chemistry, team culture and attitude is the most important element to winning. This Bulls team has all this stuff and then some.

The Ohio State Basketball Buckeyes this year are the poster boys for all this stuff, and playing the game right. This Buckeyes team is special.

James

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"LeBron CERTAINLY does not have, let's say Kobe's, killer instinct.Period."

True. LeBron, IMO, needs a whole lot of work to overcome his playoff antics and that assh*le move he pulled in televising his decision to leave Cleveland. The funny thing is, though, if Miami happens to win it all in the next year or two (difficult to do, with Boston, Orlando, Chicago, the Lakers, Mavs and Spurs around), that may be enough to rehabilitate his rep. (Winning titles did wonders for helping LA fans forget about Kobe's legal problems.)

Ditto with Rose and his, shall we say, academic difficulties while in high school and at Memphis (who had to vacate the 38 wins and 2nd place NCAA finish while he was there, due to another kid allegedly taking his SAT. He never admitted it, but the NCAA charge was targeted at a player who only attended there the 1 year he played - only Rose fit the bill.) Winning big makes people forget those kinds of things. And it helps that he's behaved himself while on the Bulls.

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I just posted yesterday about how much John Wall (Washington Wizards) reminds me of Derrick Rose, as far as physical skills. I didn't realize they were so similar as far as statistics. Check out these similarities:

Each played 1 year in college, coached by John Calipari. Memphis had a 38-2 record the year Derrick R. played (07-08); Kentucky went 35-3 last year (09-10) with Wall.

College stats: Rose - 14.9 Points, 4.5 Rebounds, 4.7 Assists per game; Wall - 16.6 Pts, 4.3 Reb, 6.5 Assists

Rookie NBA stats - Rose - 16.8 Points, 3.9 Reb, 6.3 Assists

Wall (so far) - 14.8 Pts, 4.2 Reb, 9.1 Assists

Size - Rose - 6'3", 191 lbs

Wall - 6'4", 193 lbs

Rose was the first player drafted in 2008.

Wall was the first player drafted in 2010.

Rose won Rookie of the Year.

Wall most likely will not. Blake Griffin, the first player picked in 2009, who sat out his entire first year injured, is almost a mortal lock - is averaging 22.9 pts, 12.8 rebounds per game, and made the All-Star game.

My guess is Wall's game will also significantly improve with time, like Rose...but, as I stated yesterday, I doubt Washington management will get Wall as good a supporting cast as Rose has had in Chicago.

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