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Who would do this????


TartanBo

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Sadly, it seems like an escalating problem, and even worse is that it seems more juveniles are doing this....not long ago, in Baltimore, three 11 year old boys beat a two month old puppy (who got out of his owner's back yard) to death with tree branches. (why ??? "they didn't know")...then a week or so later, two teenagers poured gasoline on a puppy and lit her on fire..(why ? "they didn't think it would really kill her" right !).....I don't think this is a natural behavior for anyone...something's going on that's causing such internal anger and hatred..

I'm afraid as much as we all just want it to go away...until we DO understand why it's happening SO often...I don't think it's going to.....it's heartbreaking....just really heartbreaking.. crying

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I have heard that as well...I believe that to be true. Getting any type of satisfaction from another living thing suffering shows a serious lack of compassion & a deficit somewhere in someones sense of reason. It should be an early warning signal

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Ugh...I am not going to garner much favor with this...

I LOVE animals..I have 2 beautiful collies,2 parakeets,2 african frogs & a turtle (our hamster "sniffles" recently passed)

I have gotten out of my car on a highway to try to catch a stray dog so it wouldn't get hit by a car. We have found abandoned or attacked birds & taken them to a local sanctuary...

That said..(here's where I get the hate responses)

There is a difference between animal torture and medical research.

I don't believe in testing for the vanity of cosmetics,but do I want cancer or M.S. cured or made more treatable?...absolutely.

I know it's a moral dilemma...it is for me as well. I love animals.

Everything is is trade...If they hadn't done research on anilmals we wouldn't be able to treat heartworms in dogs , feline leukemia etc...They benefit as well.

Mice are very similar to us genetically & have a pretty much 1 on 1 similarity between genes...very important research involving stem cells has advanced due to the use of mice.

If you walk into any large medical facility,past admissions,standard treatment & find yourself in clinical trials you find yourself in a room full of human guinea pigs...admittedly the have signed on for the research..due to their condition. But they are being tested and documented no different then those mice..

I am very much on the fence about this..(AGAIN) I LOVE animals)

But any one of us who has EVER gone & picked up a prescription to help with whatever is ailing you...needs to think about how someone came upon that magical treatment that provides your relief

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Magoo, the M understands why you are on the fence. In my life animals are in two categories. Those categories determine the chances at longevity.

CUTE - FROM BIRTH

Horses, Cows, Sheep, Goats, Cats, Dogs, Pigs

DON'T HAVE IT GOING ON AND NEVER WILL

Snakes, Lizards, Spiders, Frogs

The last category is guaranteed a trip to the big pet shop in the sky if they cross my path or enter my home. My hubby believes in trap and release and often does. When that approach fails, I use the crush it with a brick approach. I always works!!

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to miss "M"

as your sidekick.I need to share..You kill with a brick.. I once killed a mouse with a jar of Ragu spaghetti sauce.

I was in my early 20's,in my first apartment when "mickey" came skittering across my kitchen floor...I SCREAMED & dropped the jar right on his little mousey head.

No spaghetti for me that night!

The only thing I still feel bad about is that I had bought Ragu...WTF???

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I've read that too, Belle.

The other day, my 4 year old stepped in front of me and squished a spider that I was trying to catch and release, because it looked like a proud, un-poisonous spider...

I'm wondering,...Do I need to schedule some serial-killer prevention sessions with a shrink? :twitch:

You had better get right on it Tony while there is still time!

Belle

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Which reminds me.

When I was a teenager teaching six year olds in Sunday School the kidlets saw a spider and were frightened. I took that opportunity to expand their understanding of entomology and the virtue of mercy (it being Sunday School and all). Their fear turnded to curiosity and they became enthralled instead frightened chattering and observing it closely.

Then the Sunday School Superintendent entered to tell me something. The children excitedly said "Look Brother Whatever His Name Was, a spider!" whereupon he said "Oh" and squished it underfoot. Not one of my most successful classes.

Belle

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I can't remember when there haven't been some sort of animal cast-offs in our house. It is just the way it is here. Fins, fur, or feathers, there is a place for the needy and those in pain. I have no tolerance for those who maim and kill animals. I guess I am not so charitable to my fellow man after some of the things I have seen. Correction, when it comes to animal cruelty is little more than a minor fine and a note in there file. How about making the punishment fit the crime? Strip the perpetrator naked, sprinkle him/her liberally with ticks, tie them in the sun with no water, food, and a collar that is so tight it is cutting into their neck. Then, come back in seventy-two hours (See? I am charitable after all) and see if their views on animal neglect have changed. Most importantly, get the message out and put it on network TV, not off in the corner on Animal Planet! Now that's reality TV that counts.

We had an incident here a while back where some idiots were catching brown Pelicans and slitting open their pouches, leaving them to starve. what kind of society have we created that breeds these sort of monsters? Makes me sick.

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There is a difference between animal torture and medical research.....

....But any one of us who has EVER gone & picked up a prescription to help with whatever is ailing you...needs to think about how someone came upon that magical treatment that provides your relief

"I have studied the question of vivisection for thirty-five years and am convinced that experiments on living animals are leading medicine further and further from the real cure of the patient. I know of no instance of animal experiment that has been necessary for the advancement of medical science; still less do I know of any animal experiment that could conceivably be necessary to save human life."

-H. Fergie Woods, M.D.

Hi Rachan!

Thanks for your well thought out post and the way you view experimenting on animals.

With me, animals, unlike their human counter parts have no say in what is about to happen to them. Mice and rats are used because of their high tolerance to pain. Right then, that says to me...Red flag: PAINFUL! All one has to do is look it up on line. This whole thing is totally unnecessary, because as you stated, there are humans who agree and get paid to be guinea pigs. In the end, every drug has to finally be tested on a human before we know how it works.

*But they are being tested and documented no different then those mice.*

So my question would be, then WHY is there testing on animals who has no say? Why aren’t we just using humans?

*But any one of us who has EVER gone & picked up a prescription to help with whatever is ailing you...needs to think about how someone came upon that magical treatment that provides your relief.*

Well, the only reason I can get that drug, is because another human has tested it. That’s how it ended up for approval by the FDA.

Unfortunately, we don’t agree on this issue. I personally see there is no moral dilemma, as animals should not be used for any experimentation. However, I really do thank you for speaking about it. Not many would get on here with your view point and post.

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Hey Wendy

Thanks for the response!

"Not many people would get on here with your view point & post" was a bit of a jab. But that's fine.That's why it's an open forum.

I never said I'm wandering around looking for piglets to poke with a stick...to the contrary.

I was merely playing devils advocate...

Alot of people become highly indignant about this issue,but then when they become seriously ill it's off to the doctor ..."Fix it!"...fix it comes with a price.

and it IS a moral dilemma.

The doctor you quoted died one year short of half a century ago.Probably a brilliant man..but gone before you or I were born.

How many medical advances have we seen in our lifetime?Testing played a part in those. Yes the FDA approval comes with human testing..but that's at the end of the pipeline. Not where it begins...I never said anything about people getting paid for clinical trials..in my experience(sadly) that comes when someone is diagnosed terminal & they are willing to try anything.

Again..I love animals. My house is jam packed with them. I would never even dream of hurting an animal. Both of my dogs suffer from seizures & when that happens I grab their phenobarbitol & sit with them while they pretty much lose control of all bodily functions. I agree with you that no living thing should suffer.

What I was trying to convey is that we are reaping the benefits from alot of research that people have no idea what went on behind the scenes to get to the point we are now at.

I can't be damning when I don't have full disclosure of all the products,cosmetics,prescriptions that I use & the research that went into producing them.

We agree & disagee on this...it's just a matter of perspective. I certainly would not disavow or disrespect your opinion...as you would not mine.

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I too have mixed feelings on the matter of animals used in this way.

I appreciate progress in treating disease but there are limits which when breached are so inhumane as to do more harm to our standing as civilized human beings than whatever knowledge is garnered.

I honestly don't always know where to draw the line but to avoid suffering as much as possible is a good place to start.

Belle

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