PaulMaul Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 As every baseball fan knows, a "five tool player" is one who has it all: hits for average, hits for power, plays defense, throws runners out, and has speed.Let's call a "five tool player" in music someone who simultaneously excels at: 1. singing2. writing lyrics3. writing melodies4. playing an instrument5. arranging songsFive tool players in music are pretty rare. We're all a bit biased, but Eric Carmen seems to be one. 1,3 and 4 (piano) are pretty much slam dunks. I would argue that he's at least a very good to great lyricist. And, while not going it alone, I'm pretty sure the buck stops with Eric when it comes to arrangements of his songs (correct me if wrong).Who else is a five tool player? I honestly am having trouble thinking of any. It's debatable, but I don't believe any of the Beatles are technically great players, though they're very good at what they're going for. Pete Townshend, to me, neither a great singer nor a great guitarist. Elton John, not a lyricist.Anybody have someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim From Wisconsin Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Prince!He is one of the best all around talents of the last 30 years! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Burton Cummings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Natalie Merchant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim From Wisconsin Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Roger Hodgson Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Uh Paul is one of the greatest bass player ever...and all were excellent players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMaul Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 Uh Paul is one of the greatest bass player ever...and all were excellent players. I figured many would say that. Of course, it all comes down to opinion, and what you classify as an "excellent player." Obviously, John Lennon would not have been able to play Rachmaninoff. I'm not saying that makes him a bad player, but how exactly are we to judge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 John was mainly a guitar player, and an excellent one at that. The Beatles played most everything on their albums. What does learning some classical pieces have to do being a good player. The Beatles could all play. Paul is one of the best bass players ever. Playing Rachmaninoff is irrelevent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMaul Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 Billy Joel fits the bill, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMaul Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 John was mainly a guitar player, and an excellent one at that...Paul is one of the best bass players ever. Listen, I love the Beatles, and I'm not trying to start an argument. But I hear all the time that Paul is one of the best bass players ever. And I just wonder how that's being concluded? I'm limiting this "tool" to sheer technical excellence on an instrument. Please cite a Beatles song that illustrates excellent technical bass playing by Paul (not writing a bass part, or writing a song).I disagree with you completely, learning a classical piece is exactly the kind of thing that illustrates technical excellence. Forget about songwriting, that's a completely different category.The one wildcard I guess is what you consider "technical excellence." It's obvious to me that Geddy Lee is a better "technical" bass player than Paul McCartney, but I'm sure you will laugh at that, so I'm not sure how to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Psssssst, Paul, it's me, James! I just wanted to quickly say (and I won't tell anyone).. that you just snuck Rush into another thread! Great job!!..:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 How's this...Paul McCartney is judged by his peers to be one of the alltime greats...Listen to Rain, Good Lord Paul is the greatest melodic bass player ever...I mean if you are familiar with the Beatles catalog and can't figure out what a great player Macca is...we've got nowhere to go.BTW, my ex wife can play Rachmaninoff. LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Do you play anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Pete Townshend is not a great guitarist.Hahahahahahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Hollies, behave yourself!!!!!! It's OK to lose an argument to Paul. We'll still love you!!..besides you should have plenty of practice losing arguments by now (you've gone down to me so many times you ought to be numb to it by now..):-)So let's all hold hands and think about world peace (though I'll be thinking about Hillary..):-(Anyway, here watch this one, it's a piece of genius we can ALL agree on. Oh yeah.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9TOitV21XE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMaul Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 Do you play anything? Let's see:GuitarPennywhistleGreat Highland BagpipeLook, it's all in how you define things. To me, if someone is a technically excellent player, then it would be difficult for other players to imitate their performance effectively. That's all I mean by technical excellence. Please, take composing and writing out of it, if you haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 That's silly, a good guitar player can learn practically anything. BTW,you're the only person I've ever heard of with that description technically excellent.Your definition of technically excellent is silly. The world is full of excellent technical players.The beatles had 4 in their band. You may want to look up virtuoso in the dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMaul Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 That's silly, a good guitar player can learn practically anything. BTW,you're the only person I've ever heard of with that description technically excellent.Your definition of technically excellent is silly. The world is full of excellent technical players.The beatles had 4 in their band. You may want to look up virtuoso in the dictionary. Sorry, I've lost you. "A good guitar player can learn practically anything." OK, then if you think Lennon is a good guitar player, do you think he could have learned complex classical pieces? I don't. I don't think he had the technical training.I don't understand why it's an insult to suggest that the Beatles weren't great technical players. They were flawless on almost every other level. Why can't Neil Peart be a better drummer than Ringo without it rocking everyone's world? The Beatles didn't need to be the best technical musicians to be arguably the best band ever.I just listened to "Rain." As expected it's a fantastic song. I don't hear anything from Paul that couldn't be duplicated by hundreds of bass players. Sorry, I don't see anything here that qualifies as virtuosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMaul Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 Scouring the internet for discussions of the "best bass players" solidifies my point. All of the praise Paul McCartney gets has to do with being "innovative," "melodic," etc. These are all attributes of his compositional skills. They have nothing to do with playing. Let's be precise in separating playing from composing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 John lennon was a rythmn player. I mean you understand this right...and he's a technically excellent rythmn player...you're a guitar player right? Post a video of you playing the rythmn part of "All My Loving". Get it? Paul McCartney is one of the greatest melodic bassist ever.You do understand what I mean by Melodic lines? He writes the songs...which are uniformally great...and supplies beautiful and imaginitive basslines for them.Stuff that your boy from Rush could never...and has never come up with...I feel like I'm talking to someone who does not understand. Don't worry..I'll point this thread out to some of the players here tomorrow. I know Eric[And the vast majority of real players] has a VERY different opinion on Paul's bass playing than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Hahahahaha! He plays what he writes! You are really stretching it.Stop while you're ahead. BTW, I don't need to scour the internet for this. Paul is one of the greatest players ever...whether the Rush fan boards say so or not.Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollies65 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 http://kotaku.com/358523/someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Oh lands!!!! Heck with the earthquake in New Zealand. We've got our own earthquake right here! It's "Earthquake Hollies"!Gosh!Ok Paul, try to stay cool (as you have been so far). And try not to feel too bad. Remember: if Jesus came down here, Hollies would argue with him too. Jesus wouldn't escape being called "silly" nor would he escape the dreaded "hahahahahahahahahahah..........." or the lethal "Heh". I shudder to think about it.Anyway, my advice is to keep some perspective. Remember - there are many greats in history, that have come before you, that have been RIGHT, but still scorned by their messageboard contemporaries:For instance:Socrates of AthensPaul The ApostleJoan of ArcGalileo GalileoSt. Thomas MoreHonest Abe LincolnJames of EC.ComBeing in this fraternity should give you some solace.Sincerely,James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 P.S. Hollies, go to your room!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 But first you must compliment James (that's me) on his selection of Vienna Teng over in the "Come Around And See Me" section. It's another superb one from me.I'm waiting......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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