Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame?

[seattlesteve]

Eric you played there more than once, you wrote a song about it, and you live there.. what's your take on the the "inductees".

I have to admit, the inductee list since 86 is pretty deserving, with exceptions, but judging by the list that isn't in, I think the Raspberries and/or EC solo are screwed.

Parliment-Funkedelik and Grand Master Flash are in. The HOF likes influntial artists and it's funy that there are artist/bands already in that cite the 'berries as an influence (you know the usual suspects). Here's some of the crime sheet I'm talking about, and by the way, I'm not a fan of all of these bands but they are either great or I admit influential.

Theatre rock

Didn't Alice Cooper and Kiss have a little something to do with this?

Progressive rock

Rush and Yes set the table

Symphony/orchestra rock

Weren't Moody Blues and Chicago, and even ELO kinda there in the beginning after Left Banke?

Arena rock/power ballads

Didn't Styx, Journey, and REO have a little something to do with that movement?

Singer/songwriter?

You leave Carole King and Neil Diamond without a ticket to your barbecue?

Then you have people like Heart, Steve Miller, Hall and Oates, and Bon Jovi that were hit factories, what do you do with them?

None of the above are in, but Grandmasterflash is. Eric should be in simply of ABM which became the new ballad standard after Yesterday.

Just venting...

[Eric Carmen]

Carol King isn't inducted yet??????????

That's beyond absurd!!!! "Tapestry" was only on the Billboard charts for 5 or 6 years, I think. Those people are crazy.

And Kiss? Not in the rock hall yet? But Percy Sledge is? Ridiculous.

[missm]

Eric, I concur with you on Percy Sledge. But differ with you on Kiss. I feel the R&RHOF is for the "originators" AND THEN the "duplicators". I feel Alice Cooper should be there long before Kiss. I share your shock over the lack of induction of Carole King. My shock extends to Neil Sedaka and YOU!! I have read the criteria for induction and it is abundently clear that YOU, Carole King and Neil Sedaka all exceed said criteria. I guess the final say belongs to Jan Wenner. I'm including a like to the "induction process", not because I think you don't know it. I fear there are some who don't.

[Brian Mc Carthy]

It really is disgraceful,there are acts in the hall that I never heard of! And on the outside looking in are like Eric mentioned are legends who are not only adored but have inspired many of todays artists. I wonder where the hall took a wrong turn? Did the criteria change? Did it transition into like office politics?

[seattlesteve]

If I went into Times Square today with my clipboard, and stopped 500 people and asked them to name one Parliment or Grandmaster Flash song, any, how full would my clipboard be?

Now look again at my list, and how much room these guys that still aren't in took up on Billboard charts... ridiculous.

Another irony. Read the vintage early 70's clippings where a common thread was calling the Raspberries "derivitive", now in hindsight with the benfit of perspective the very same compositions are now considered "influential". Go figure.

[Brian Mc Carthy]

So true Steve, and I would even put Alan Parsons Project on the list. And it annoys me endlessly.Also Eric on his sensational songwriting talent should be in.And then there is the rest of his story as a musician with exceptional high standards. He has three different ways to get in, Songwriter or as a raspberrie or as a solo artist.I am so fed up with the hall, that I often wonder if they have spiteful intentions.

[Eric Carmen]

Moody Blues: Definitely. Days Of Future Past was one of the definitive albums of my youth.

Kiss: Yes, because they defined a generation

Alice Cooper: Absolutely. Great pop songs and a complete original.

I could go on and on.

It's all politics, folks.

[Bob Allen]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together and even a shred of dignity understands that the RRHOF is for touristas only. Quite frankly, if I were a 'rock and roll' artist with some merit (ie, Alice Cooper), I would consider it a badge of honor to NOT be involved w/ that operation. If someone came up to me on the street and offered me $5,000 to tour the facility I would let them keep their money. I mean, honestly, ABBA's in the RRHOF and Alice Cooper isn't? That defies logic, not to mention the natural order of things. J Wenner is gross.

PS -Alice Cooper was blazin' the other night. Still looks and sounds great. Plus, he's a very funny guy.

[hollies65]

Alice Cooper is a bit miffed at not being in.The Sex Pistols were the only band to tell them to shove it.

[Brian Mc Carthy]

And its a bummer Eric, when politics get into the mix.There is then no integrity left. It robs the artists of a much-deserved honor in recognition of their careers. AND it also cheats the fans who celebrate those moments.

[missm]

It's not only politics, but the notion that acts are voted in by the fans continues to be propogated. I noticed in the musical "Jersey Boys" a reference was made to them having been voted in by the fans. We all know that to be a serious misrepresentation of the truth. Then again bald-faced lies and politics go hand in hand. Eric, if it were up to the fans you would have been inducted years ago!

[hollies65]

Actually, since you CAN'T vote acts into the R&R HOF...i wouldn't think that is a wide held belief.

[missm]

Tell that to those who wrote "Jersey Boys".

[hollies65]

Well they may have wrote that...but it's not a widely held belief...because no one but the select members vote.Probably two or three guys wrote jersey Boys.

[Tiggsherby]

Parliment Funkadelic---is truly deserving, not quite the "cup of tea" of this demographic (at EC.com), but they are truly iconic in the African American world.

ABBA....I'm all for them being in too, ever look at their worldwide record sales statistics???!!!!

That being said....there are many that shouldn't be in and many that should....and as much as I like the Berries and EC, their numbers just don't make the cut (on a National List) ....though neither does Percy Sledge by a longshot.

Now if "songs" could make the Hall....All By Myself and Go All The Way are there.

[James]

I don't follow the HOF thing, so really don't know their criteria etc... and maybe I shouldn't comment here. But I will anyway..

What I want to say is that it's hard for me to fathom that Eric Carmen does not belong in the Rock Hall.

He put out 10 studio albums (4 with Raspberries and 6 solo) - on them he wrote and sang about 80 songs I'd guess. Most those songs are great songs, the worse ones are "only good songs". This is not just a subjective opinion from me, it's also the truth.

Eric also sang one of the biggest hits of the 80s in "Hungry Eyes", and after wrote and put out one of the BEST songs of the 80s ("Make Me Lose Control").

Next: who wrote the standard ("All by Myself") that some here say is one of the top 2 or 3 standards of alltime, at least in the pop era?

Lastly, it's said by so many that are music-world in-the-knows...it's said that The Raspberries were seminal with respect to Power-pop. This makes sense to me. And who was the genius behind the Raspberries?

Case closed.

IMHO..

James

[hollies65]

Who in the hell is going to argue against THAT, HERE?

[James]

I'm not looking to argue...just laying it out as I see it.

James

[hollies65]

One year Badfinger, Big Star and The Raspberries will be inducted...all at the same time. It will be a great day

[Tiggsherby]

yeah right and the Starland Vocal Band too....well maybe, in the year 2525, oh and I guess by that year Zager and Evans will make it too!

Hey in "my" Hall of Fame the Berries and EC are there, but there are many more that would need to come first. If anything, since the friggin' Hall is in Cleveland, you'd think there might be a little favoritism.

I think Percy's people had some "photos" that someone didn't want to get out!

[seattlesteve]

James, agreed ABM has become the new ballard standard that "Yesterday " held. Check out Eric's royalty checks. It has far more song placement today than it did in the day. Kind of like Kevin Cronin's "Can't Fight This Feeling" (my wedding song in 86)

I checked, Carole Kings "Tapestery" was on the charts for 304 weeks. Let's see anyone ever do that again. She belongs just for Tapestry, but...

BEFORE Tapestry, she wrote "Will You Love Me Tomorrow" at the age of 18, she wrote and gave away Locomotion, Pleasant Valley Sunday (#3) Go Away Little Girl (Donny), One Fine Day, Natural Women (Aretha) , and many more.

Tapestry was the top selling solo album ever, until that one glove guy came around with Thriller.

However it's not the record, and no it's not the Beatles (they kept cranking out albums, competing with themselve) This is unbelievable and will never happen again (like Wilt Chamberlain getting 100 points in 1 game) Pink Floyd's, "Dark Side of the Moon".. 761 weeks!

Pink is in, Carole should be too..

[hollies65]

Carol King is in as a songwriter along with her ex Gerry Goffin.

[seattlesteve]

I checked further, you are right. Even the rockhall.com official site will not show Carole King alphabetically in the K's, she is an aside with Goffin in the G's as a non-performer. Tapestry is #3 ever for weeks on the charts. Seems she might be considered as a performer, good timing while she is touring with James Taylor currently.

[raspberrywolf]

This IS an excellent thread even though as some have stated it's been debated on numerous occasions previously. I happen to think it is one of those topics that 'should' be reviewed from time to time simply because not everyone was a member from day one and we are constantly gaining new members with new insights/ideas. I find re-reading previous views with new takes on things fascinating...even better, this IS actually a thread about music pure and simple. Kinda like getting a 'meat and potatos' dinner...no frills but every now and again that's just what I'm craving so thank you for revisting this subject...to me, it's one that NEVER gets dull. As for Eric and the Raspberries being inducted...I think some of those "Jersey Boyz" should have a lil heart to heart/err cement to shoes conversation with some of those voting members!

[MikeC]

It is surprising to read the names not in the HOF. Some have probably charted in five or more countries. When they return to play 20, 30 or more years abroad later, people are singing their songs to them, during the concert. Some people know the entire song. One artist once said, early in his career, joking with the audience said,"You sing the chorus, and I sing the verse" "This is My Show!"(Laughter and smiles from the singer/writer John Denver, addressing an audience in Colorado at a famous outdoor theater and recorded on a DVD to buy). I guess people started having the habit of singing every one of his songs, when others wanted to hear the artist.

Carole King- I remember spending my entire summers in Canada(10, growing up), and Carole's songs were heard, it seemed every week. There is quite a reaching effect for some of these artists. Not just here in the U.S. Carole, I read, is moving to L.A. to be closer to her family, but she has other homes, too. Her huge property in Idaho is for sale, still I guess for about 16 million dollars.