Who Writes What?

[PaulMaul]

I've always wondered which band members contribute to the "writing" of a song within a band setting. After Eric's recent comments suggesting he is "hands on" when it comes to writing and arranging, I wonder it specifically about Raspberries songs.

Take "If You Change Your Mind" as an example. I assume Eric composed this song by himself on a guitar (piano?), creating the basic chord structure and the lyrics.

Now, the guitar work on the verses of this song is phenomenally creative. Does Eric bring the song to practice, and Wally creates these guitar parts? Did Eric create these guitar parts, or co-create them with Wally?

I imagine the answers to these questions in general depend on how much control the songwriter wants over the finished product. We've all seen the segment from the "Let it Be" movie where George gets fed up with Paul micromanaging his playing.

So, "Who Writes What" in an Eric Carmen Raspberries song?

[Tony Cartmill]

It all depends on who you ask...or who you spend Thanksgiving with?

"Hiyo!"

[James]

Great question Paul, I've always wondered the same..

James

[MikeC]

It seems there are three parts of the question:

1)Who wrote, then who brought the song[To the recording studio]? Notice here, he started and ended his own song-Very important as to whose song it was[Already, and literally]-Before the studio session.

2)When someone adds guitar, other than the original writer of both lyrics and original chords, is it their song, too?

To answer this, let's say there is a guitar-riff at the beginning or ending of a song. And both lyrics and chords were already wtitten by the original writer, but not the guitarist who played after it was already written. The song is now separated. The writer gets full credit for having the original writing idea, along with the chords. But, if they both agree that it is considered to be co-written, even with a small musical part by the guitarist. And, after the complete beginning and ending were already written by someone else [other than the added guitar later], it is then co-written.

'Consideration' here means that it was agreed in writing or verbally, before.

3)Who really gets credit for the whole song? Does someone get any credit if that musician says, for example,"I'll write it, too".[A co-writing situation]. But then the original writer gets inspired and finishes before the other musician and might say,"I got it. The song's done. We don't need any more writing, just fill-ins".[Like guitar-riffs or a musical ending to a song]".

The original writer here is looking at his own lyrics, and not the other person's lyrics. Notice, again, that the original chord structure was already there. And the whole song is brought to the studio. Lyrics and chords, written or played, is a song. And no doubt credited to the person bringing the song.

[Eric Carmen]

In the case of "If You Change your Mind", I wrote most of the guitar lines in my hotel room in New York the night before we recorded it. I knew they had to be there, and I knew what I wanted them to be, but I'm such a lame guitar player it took my hours and hours to figure out the voicing and harmonies.

I showed them to Wally the next day in the studio, and he learned them and could play them almost instantly.

I've always been able to "think" great guitar parts, I just can't play them very well.

In regards to question three, Kevin Cronin and I had talked about getting together to work on a ballad he had been having some trouble with. The day of our songwriting session he cancelled, and finished " I Can't Fight This Feeling Anymore" by himself. No hard feelings. He did a great job on it!

There are a million different ways a song can have multiple writers, but for the most part, whoever writes the melody, chords and lyrics gets the writer credit.

[writerheather]

Eric Carmen said:

I knew they had to be there, and I knew what I wanted them to be, but I'm such a lame guitar player it took my hours and hours to figure out the voicing and harmonies.

In regards to question three, Kevin Cronin and I had talked about getting together to work on a ballad he had been having some trouble with. The day of our songwriting session he cancelled, and finished " I Can't Fight This Feeling Anymore" by himself. No hard feelings. He did a great job on it!

Good thing you can play the piano so well, then.

Interesting about Kevin Cronin. That's one of my all time favorite songs. The past few times I've listened to "Starting Over", at the chorus I get a vague sense of REO Speedwagon. Maybe it's just a quirk of my ear, but something about it reminds me of them. I'm not sure why...I'm going to have to figure it out before it drives me crazy.

[marathon mama]

writerheather said:

Good thing you can play the piano so well, then.

I think Eric also plays guitar quite well, but he was comparing himself to the even better guitar players (and being modest.)

[writerheather]

marathon mama said:

I think Eric also plays guitar quite well, but he was comparing himself to the even better guitar players (and being modest.)

Oh, I think so too. I didn't mean to imply that I thought otherwise. I forget that "tone" doesn't always quite come across on the internet, even with cute emoticons.

[PaulMaul]

Eric Carmen said:

In the case of "If You Change your Mind", I wrote most of the guitar lines in my hotel room in New York the night before we recorded it. I knew they had to be there, and I knew what I wanted them to be, but I'm such a lame guitar player it took my hours and hours to figure out the voicing and harmonies.

I don't want to go into excessive detail, but I do like to know whose work I'm admiring. So, in the opening chords of "Change Your Mind", the use of the added G-sharp on the A and B chords was your invention? And ditto for the use of the same B/G-sharp chord on Tonight? I really think these touches add immensely to already great songs.

[Eric Carmen]

I'm not sure precisely which chords you're referring to, but Wally used to joke about having to learn to play "piano chords" on the guitar. He really is a GREAT guitarist, and not many people could do what he did.

I remember trying to teach "Go All The Way" to the Ringo Starr band, and I think Dave Edmunds said at one point "I've never seen anything like it! There's a fucking chord for every WORD!" The whole band agreed, in an interview, that my songs were, by far, the hardest to play and sing.

I thought that was kind of interesting, considering I was playing with a Beatle, the bass player and lead singer of Cream, the drummer of Bad Company and Free, and lead guitarist Dave Edmunds.

I always write on the piano, even when I know I'm writing for guitars. I think that's one of the things that make Raspberrries/ EC songs interesting. I THINK the guitar parts in my head, and then wait to work them out with guys who are more talented guitarists than me.

[darlene]

I love hearing about how you think when you're writing something. Basically, you think like a symphony orchestra functions, and that's why it's all there, full and complete, with nothing missing! Like Mozart.

--D

[ANDREA]

Thank you so much Eric for sharing all this.

[James]

Ditto.

Reading these insights and stories is a huge treat.

Thanks Eric!..

James

[Tony Cartmill]

Another Ditto. Has anybody heard Kevin Cronin admit he was influenced by Eric? That "I Can't Fight This Feeling" song always felt like one of the best EC ballads not written by EC.

Kind of like what EC does with Beach Boys style tunes.

[okstevens]

So Eric, would you say that the opening chords to a few of your songs could have been different if Wally wasn't the Berries guitarist? Not better, not worse, but just maybe different. He shouldn't of had writing credits, I agree, but maybe "guitar intros written by Eric Carmen and arranged by Wally Bryson" or with the contribution of Wally Bryson?

It seems that Wally could hear your "piano chords" and turn ivory into steel and interpret them as you would have played them. You BOTH are such great freakin' songwriters/musicians. It saddens me to think that the two of you were to never play together again.