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Late term abortionist Tiller the Killer...


hollies65

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Guest Fresh

I couldn't agree more, Steve.A doctor takes an oath to be a healer,and above all,to do no harm.It was very interesting that he got it at church...ironic,no?

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How can it be that if a woman goes into distress at 6 months,there are heroic efforts to "save the babys' life", but if a doctor performs a partial-birth abortion in the 8th or 9th month,it's not a human life???

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Guest Fresh

Being in the health-care arena,I have my own insights regarding pregnancy and abortion.I admit up-front that my Roman Catholic upbringing has "contoured" my clinical observations.In my opinion,when a woman gets ovarian cancer,or breast cancer, these are serious health problems that require medical intervention.These things for the most part probably developed thru no fault of the woman.However,when a woman becomes pregnant,it is not an illness.It is the natural result of fertilization of an egg most likely thru sexual relations.This result is predictable and expected.We live in a world where contraceptives are not only readily available,but given out for free to the financially disadvantaged.People know that if two sexually mature humans engage in intercourse,there is the high probability that a preganancy will result if safety measures are not employed.The persons involved are directly RESPONSIBLE for any conception that occurs.I don't think any government should have to pay for someone else's irresponible behavior.My point is you can't totally prevent life-threatening illnesses from happening,but you can totally prevent unwanted pregnancies from happening.

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Don't abort a child. Just have it and put it up for adoption. Of course this is the opinion of an adoptive mother so what else would I believe in my heart and mind.

I was adopted at 5 months. Thankfully I was born in 1964 and not 1973. I could have been one of the many abortions since then.

Ya wanna play, ya gotta pay!

BMP

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Brian, I think you and Rob really make the point. If you're going to be a sexually active adult then you need to understand the possibilities and consequences that could go with those actions. As a species human beings (as well as any other species on the planet!) were created to be reproductive. That's not going to go away any time soon so you'd better learn to deal with it responsibly! This should not e one of those cases where you just 'change your mind' and undo your problems!

I know that everyone has varying points of view but this is a really emotional one for me. Due to health issues it took a great deal for me to get pregnant. I had three children but lost four. I can remember like it was yesterday going into the clinic for a serum pregnancy test and sitting there waiting for the results. A woman was there with her younger sister telling her, "Don't worry about it. It'll all be over soon... and then we can go out to lunch!" My results were negative and I went out to John waiting in the care for me and cried my eyes out. Here we were trying so hard against the odds and someone else was disposing of a life and then going out to lunch and getting on with their day as though it were no big deal! And with that kind of an attitude that you can just 'erase' your problems you can bet they didn't learn anything and probably went out and did it again. Give the child up and make it a win-win scenario for someone who really wants a child! We were blessed to have had children and blessed further to have adopted children. I know you can say that I'm biased and just don't get it but I have 5 grandkids from my two kids who were teens when they each had their first and they made the responsible decision and raised great families. Sorry but I just had to say this stuff out loud amongst friends because this is really important to me. Thanks.

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I was adopted at 5 months. Thankfully I was born in 1964 and not 1973. I could have been one of the many abortions since then.

Ya wanna play, ya gotta pay!

BMP

I happy you're here today with us BMP!

One of my dearest friends is here today because she was born in 1961. I can't imagine my life without her. She has brought so much to this world.

I am also the proud aunt of an adopted niece. Rasa is also my God-child and the light in my brother's heart. If I could find the young teenage couple who chose to give her up, I'd hug and kiss them for the beautiful gift they gave to our family! heartpump

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Guest Fresh

Sounds to me like we have alot of sincere and sensible people here on this thread.I would have sooner cut out my own liver before I would ever consider aborting either one of my two lovely daughters.Two words: Maturity and Responsibility.

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Ecstasy: your post really hits home.While on the one hand there is a couple desperately trying to conceive a child to bring into the world to nurture and love, and at the same moment an irresponsible,selfish,immature person aborts a child as if it were a mole being removed.So sorry for the inconvenience to your busy schedule! I applaud you Ecstasy.

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I think it goes without saying that everybody on this board is grateful that they're alive, that they weren't aborted. And it's very, very easy to pronounce judgment and say that any pregnancy, regardless of circumstances, must be seen through, since it's a "win-win" situation. (It's even easier for men to say this, since they're not the ones getting pregnant or the ones personally faced with the situation.)

However, last time I checked, women in this country also had a right to choose under the law, albeit to a limited extent, whether they want to give birth or terminate the pregnancy. And just as the human race is going to continue to procreate, a significantly large number of women are going to continue to want and demand to keep their options open....with, whether anybody considers it right or wrong, ethical or not, abortion is one of them! This is NOT going away anytime soon!......and saying it will or should is as realistic as saying that abstinence must be practiced except for procreation only.

And this being the case, I'd prefer that such procedures be performed by a medical professional, versus some sort of a back-alley, underground, less-than-sterile arrangement - the kind that still goes on in countries/cultures who don't permit abortions.

Personally - it's none of my business...as I'm not a woman, and cannot get pregnant. If I were, however, I'd prefer that I had a choice....which is NOT the same as saying I'd automatically exercise that choice and terminate the pregnancy. I personally know several women, including one in my family, who've had abortions over the years....and they did not reach their decisions lightly or as a post-birth control device. (In two cases, they would have put their lives in danger continuing the pregnancy. In one of those cases, she lived to have 3 more children later). Not every woman who gets an abortion is an "irresponsible, selfish or immature" person who considers it the same as having a mole removed.

It's called "pro-choice", by the way, and not "pro-abortion" for a good reason!

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This guys performed 60,000 abortions...he did over 250 late term abortion in 2003 alone. There were three late term providers in the entire country...now there are two. Tiller was breaking Kansas law by performing these terrible LATE TERM abortions.I'm not going to go through the silly reasons he used to justify killing babies that would lived outside the womb but charges were brought and a change in the political landscape in Kansas saved Tiller from prison, plain and simple.Choice..sure...reluctantly...choice late term...murder...no way! IMO.

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JohnO, I respect your thoughts to protect women and especially those in your family whose lives were in danger. Your example is one of the reasons it's so valuable that we speak our hearts and minds here to each other and really consider what the other person is saying. In my opinion I believe your example is one of the reasons it's so hard to have hard and fast laws... there are always exceptions that affect a specific case that are outside of the original intent of the law. The choice of saving a woman's life is a valid yet heart-wrenching reason to end a pregnancy. I think the point that others are referring to is when abortion is used to get a person (man OR woman) off the hook so that they don't need to take responsibility for their sexual actions or when it's done late-term, as Steve said, when the child could have survived outside the womb with or without assistance. What would be the point in having an abortion at that point when you could just give the child up and not have to take permanent responsibility.

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If Tiller forced these women to undergo these procedures, then I'd say he got what he deserved. If not, then I guess women desiring this service from now on will have to avail themselves of the other two practitioners. (And killing those two as well still won't eliminate the need for this particular service, I'm guessing. Will just drive it underground....)

And BTW, I don't think anybody in their right mind agrees with late-term abortions, except in the most extreme cases imaginable....or in using abortion as a afterthought, after-the-fact birth control means. There certainly ARE, however, legit reasons for having to undergo one.

"....but charges were brought and a change in the political landscape in Kansas saved Tiller from prison, plain and simple..."

I thought the reason charges were brought wasn't because he had performed late-term abortions, which weren't illegal in Kansas, per se, provided a 2nd independent opinion from another doctor confrms the primary doctor's diagnosis....but because it was doubtful that Tiller had gotten legit 2nd opinions. And if that were true, then he broke the law and should have gone to jail.

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This guys performed 60,000 abortions...he did over 250 late term abortion in 2003 alone.

At 250 per year it would take him 240 years to do 60,000.

Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973, so if Dr. Tiller's abortions were all legal, they would have been performed in the last 36 years. Sixty thousand divided by 36 is about 1,667 per year. If Dr. Tiller took 4 weeks of vacation, sick leave, or other non-working days each year, that means he performed about 35 abortions a week, or about one an hour (assuming a 9-to-5 day with an hour off for lunch).

Performing an abortion an hour every working day for 36 years is a pace that would have taxed Lou Gehrig. I don't believe it happened.

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grumpyI found this whole incident very telling. Did he (Dr. Tiller) never realize that he was able to do what he did because of a "pro-life" decision that was made relative to his life.

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice - these are just word combinations that while polarizing in the opinions they represent, are still just words. A cow is still a cow regardless of if you call it a bovine or a cow. Murder is still murder regardless of whether you chose to use the word murder or abortion.

Sometimes when I see and listen to the "things" running loose in the streets today, I believe birth control should be retroactive. Yet, when I see or hear the music of Mozart (or Eric Carmen), or see the paintings of Picasso, or hear a toddler talking I believe that everyone should be given the chance to be here. Not everyone will be a Picasso,Carmen, Mozart or Tommy Tunes but not everyone will be Charlie Manson either. :thanx:

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