Paulie Mississippi Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I've been somewhat following the recent troubles that Mel Gibson finds himself in stemming from his DUI arrest a few days back...Seems that now we find out that he also made several anti-Semitic remarks while drunk and is profusely apologizing to the Jewish people as well as trying to turn his life around in rehab.I'm waiting to see how "the church" of Christianity handles this. Having spent a good part of my life within the confines of Christianity, I know that they have a tendency to "eat their wounded" as it were, turning on a fallen follower faster than a pack of wolves on a wounded pack-mate.Considering the stand he made in making a movie that nobody in hollywood wanted made; hopefully that will buy him a little... but past evidence tells me he's in for a harder time than just alcohol rehab... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 There is no " church of Christianity." There are individuals who refer to themselves as Christians.The embrace of "The Passion" by evangelicals was odd to me. Historically fundamentalism has rejected anything coming from a Catholic perspective ( which was true of The Passion). I taught a course on radical groups earlier this summer. I discussed Mel's dad a bit and his association with British Israelism. Mel's comments were no suprise to me.I wish Mel would stop groveling. He is richer than God to quote a phase. Just say you were drunk and go on. It is not a crime to be anti-semetic. It is distasteful but not the equivalent of child molestation, murder or rape.I play pool on a regular basis with a Jewish friend. We have been doing this for over 30 years. The ethnic-religious-sexual orientation slurs FLY across the table. Just a bit of adolescent fun. If I was famous I guess I would have to grovel and go into thought rehab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ira Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Does alcohol unleash what one really feels or is one's judgement distorted and one should not be held fully accountable for one's remarks while "under the influence"?I don't know. Nobody I ever knew railed against some ethnic group when they drank too much. Self-pity-yes.Inappropriate behavior-yes.Confessing one's love to a waitress (hey I was with guys who drank too much)-yes.But the old "Jews are the cause of all evil in the world"-that comes from a well-spring of bigotry -IMHO.-Ira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniekNY Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Ira, the common perception is that alcohol is like truth serum to some people: it allows inhibited thoughts and behaviors to spring forth!Like the "I love you, man" types or the flirty types or the bitter angry types.I think that Mr. Gibson fell off the wagon with a loud, public crash in front of a policeman who is Jewish and insulted him mightily. That the policeman has publically stated he attributed the comments to the drink and has not taken them personally says VOLUMES about the character of the man himself.As do the comments of Mel. Ira, not only are you dead on about the "wellspring of bigotry", Tom brings us to the crux of the matter: bigotry is a learned behavior and Mel's father is a known religious extremist (is that a fair and accurate assessment of him, Professor Tom?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Tom, I doubt you'd have to go through rehab so long as your friends didn't "rat you out"; as you say they understand it's in good fun. My first job was at a grocery store that was managed by a Polish American. He was aware that his heritage is the butt of jokes... pretty much the type that are poked at blondes now... and rather than let it bother him, at the start of work each day he'd call us young guys together, and tell us raunchier jokes; ethincly insensitive toward Poles and any and every other race. It put everybody at ease and earned him a great deal of respect and admiration from his employees. A couple of us bought him a bumper sticker that said "Honk If You're Polish" and he proudly plastered it on the rear of his car!Nobody thought anything about the jokes because everybody knew they were in good fun. Now had one of us shown up at work drunk and started calling him a stupid Polock, well... I think the story would have been different!I also agree that there is no such thing as one particular church, be it Christianity or any other religion. They are all filled with orthodoxes and extremes and conservative and liberalities that cling to one part of the faith more vehemently than their brethren in humanity... kind of makes one sick when we see most of the world's problems caused and exasperated by religious intollerance... But poor Mel... I can see him being publicly humiliated for a long time over thi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cartmill Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 MEL! WHATEVER HAPPENED TO REMEMBERING THE VIRTUES OF BEING A QUIET HAPPY DRUNK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecstasy Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I'm a devout Christian and have been my entire life but I will tell you this. Never confuse the people with the faith --- of any religion. People will always have internal strife and bickering amongst themselves. They will always seek to have things their own way and judge others. Faith, on the other hand, is from within and should unify rather than divide. I've left countless churches because the people were so busy being "religious" that they didn't have time to practice the faith! I don't have much confidence in churches but I have strong convictions about my faith. Mel is reflecting the "people" stuff, the reflection of personal self, not the reflection of the faith. Unfortunately, that behavior is the stuff that colors any faith and gives it a bad name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I wasn't going to post here but I have this to share... Having worked with people with various dependancies - be it alchohol, drugs whatever - I discovered one thing.What is said "under the influence" was something that was already part of their thoughts. On that basis whether Mel said something he normally wouldn't have, had he not been drinking, he has revealed what he thinks.I have always enjoyed Mel's acting and directing. I hope this wont interfere with that.As a person in one of my lectures said to another student years ago... "Just because Schliemacher (spelling??)had gonorrhoea doesn't mean he doesn't have something valid to say, or if your Maths teacher has Aids - 1 + 1 still make 2."Let's be careful who we criticise here whether its Mel, Christians, Churches or other groups. It is what make our society for better or worse and it aint going to change in a hurry.If I had of done what Mel did, no body would know. Mel's a celebrity, and while many consider that makes him public property he is still a human being - warts and all. I don't excuse him. I do feel for him though.And hey.. I have a little jewish blood flowing through these veins of mine.A more serious Muzza than you might be used to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Per Paulie - "Considering the stand he made in making a movie that nobody in hollywood wanted made; hopefully that will buy him a little...."No, IMO, his stand, courageous or otherwise, won't buy him a thing....but the fact that his little indy movie grossed $370M + will (and has, so far)....at least in Hollywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Mel is always rambling about his faith (catholic) and how everyone else is going to hell.I love his acting but he should get off his soap box concerning how great the Catholic church is.He will be luckuy to getout of hollywood in tact with a career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Thats exactly why he should shut the @#$%# up!!! about Catholics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 I have little to no doubt that the faith vs. the flesh battle that we all wage at times causes us to waver in our strength. We are all raised with certain points of view that come from our upbringing (parental teaching, environment, education, etc...) and when those are skewed; as is the case with people who have been raised to be bigots; it is something that can be through effort overcome. That said, when and if you do something that puts you somewhat out of control of your facilities, it is possible that you might slip back into your early programming/training... I really suspect this is what happened with Mel... at least, I hope this is what happened with Mel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 His problem is that he has bitten the hand that feeds him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cartmill Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I saw Mel's Jesus movie. And he certainly didn't give the Jews any break in that movie's interpretation of history. And now this...Mel has some bigotry in his heart. We'll see if he wants to change.Of course, I'm a bigot when it comes to the RAP culture and lisping homosexuals (No problem with ones who talk normal), so who am I to...Oh screw it! My opinion matters most! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Lissen Tony Cartmill, you big meanie... juss stoppp it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raspberrywine Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 It says alot about image vs. reality. The years of the Hollywood machine trying to paint Mel Gibson in a certain light vs. the realities. He's a talented a guy, he's made some good movies but I hope he's crossed the line on this with people and will pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I guess I have the biggest problem with the fact that a married, supposedly "Christian" man with 7 children feels that he needs to go out late at night, without his wife and hang out with young ladies at a bar. People say and do really stupid things when they are under the influence. Was he "under the influence" when he left home that evening?My 2 cents,JulieHappily married, Christian lady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted August 7, 2006 Author Share Posted August 7, 2006 Julie, please don't take this the wrong way.You can be a happily married Christian lady all you want but you have to also be willing to make sure your husband is a happily married Christan man. Don't just assume that because he sits beside you in church, if he does, that he is.That's not to say that your husband isn't, but we do seem to have some evidence that says Mel might not be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneG Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 It's very clear from the released pictures that Mel should not have been driving that night. My first reaction to all this was wondering what idiots let him drive off (I'm quite sure those females would have loved an excuse to force him to the ground, sit on him, and go through his pockets!)Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniekNY Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Yea, Anne! Well said...Here's the other really good point that is getting swept under the rug by the racist comments. This father of seven children is lucky he didn't kill and maim someone by driving drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesberry Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Especially with his millions of $$. Doesn't have the sense to hire a driver if he's going out to get loaded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 The thing that disturbs me the most is the collective unwillingness to forgive him. Doesn't seem very Christ-like to me.Why he said it, I don't know. Alcohol/drugs make people do and say a lot of stupid things. I do believe Mel was very sincere in his apology, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cartmill Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Did you really expect the Jewish power brokers in Hollywood to give him a break?...After he messed with their status quo in 2004 with his little unmarketable Jesus movie?...If Mel starts meeting with Jewish leaders and truely seeks atonement for his out-of-the-closet bigotry, only then, and only when this story is milked for all the pro-Jewish and anti-bigotry PR it can get from the Entertainment industry, then the tar-and-feathered "Owner of Malibu" will finally be let back into the Hollywood community. Although he may have a manditory lo-jack probation chip implanted in his brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Tony,I don't disagree with you, but I wasn't necessarily talking about the Hollywood community, or the Jewish community, for that matter. Mainly, those that profess to be christians, or followers of the Lord.I actually heard one self-proclaimer state, "Well, I'll forgive him, but I won't forget." Well, that's not the way it works, you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted August 8, 2006 Author Share Posted August 8, 2006 Let's just say that when Christians say they aren't perfect, just forgiven... well some of them have a whole lot more to be forgiven for than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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