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Pope makes a radical change


Braves fan

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Very well put Kathy!!!

A lot of you may have different ideas about this than I do, and I've changed my mind since I was baptized. I used to believe that you could only be saved if you were baptized, but as I've gotten older and try to understand more, I have grown to believe that Salvation comes when you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. Baptism would be the next step as a symbol of that acceptance.

Also I would like to pose this question. Can anyone who is baptized (outside of the clergy) baptize someone else?

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My response would be yes. The Great Commission tells us to "go into all the world and preach the gospel, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." I'm sure it all depends upon your particular denomination and their practices but as believers we're all supposed to be able to preach, teach, and carry out the sacrements.

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Julie, that gave me goosebumps. How awesome!!

Ecstasy, you're absolutely right. See, I was baptized when I was 11. At the time I did it because I kind of felt the "pressure" to do it. I wish I'd waited because I felt that my actual "acceptance" came several years later.

See, both of my kids want me to baptize them. I told them I would. And just the thought of doing that for my kids surpasses words.

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I've "grown" into my perspective over the past few years. Each of my bio kids were christened at birth. Brian and Annie couldn't be baptized until their adoptions were final. I won't go into a long story here but we wanted them christened at home and the church was initially refusing to do it. My mother finally got so fed up with the hoops we were supposed to jump through (and the fee we were supposed to pay, we refused to "buy" our childrens' baptisms) that she said she'd baptize them herself! I told her she was nuts and that you couldn't do that. She explained to me what I just wrote above and it made sense. I received much of my spiritual training at home so why shouldn't we be allowed to do this ourselves. My grandma was an invalid and listened, and participated, with services over the radio. My mom did communion at home. It just became a natural progression for me once I understood that we are responsible for our relationship with Christ and part of that relationship comes out of the life (practices) we live.

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I personally feel this is a very healthy move. It enables the Catholic Church to continue with "Infant" Baptism and at the same recognises we have no scriptural basis for certainty of an infant's destiny. Baptism has always been considered an action that heralded a person's entry into the "church", the bride of Christ if you like.

Even Evangelicals on the whole are wanting to remind people that as Braves Fan says, Salvation is through Faith and accepting Christ as their personal Saviour. Baptism is then an outward expression of what has already taken place inside one's "heart".

I have always been a believer that we can only turn to God's Grace and Mercy for the acceptance of a child into the Kingdom of God. Of course, one's theology regarding Heaven and Hell will determine how you approach any of this.

To me this announcement by the Pope may be just the beginning of some interesting rethinking of some beliefs and doctrinal practices. The danger with any religion or denomination rethinking its basic foundations is the litergical implications which so many have grown up with and use as "visual" points and highlights of ones journey through life and the development of their own faith.

As I write this I am aware that one can bring more questions than answers but essentially I feel this move by the Vatican can only be freeing for those parents whose child has died within moments of birth. Because of the speed of the death, baptism has not taken place thus leaving parents harbouring guilt and anguish which prolongs the whole grieving process.

Muzza

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Quote:
Also I would like to pose this question. Can anyone who is baptized (outside of the clergy) baptize someone else?
I chose to answer this under a separate post for you Braves Fan. As others have indicated, YES, anyone can baptise someone BUT it does depend on the particular church and/or denomination involved. This can also apply to carrying out of the Sacraments. When Kiwi and I were attending a Chapel at the Air Force Base near us for a while I was asked to serve Communion. The Padre at the base had to assure the parishioners that I was an ordained minister and so could serve.

In other denominations things are far more relaxed about this. I have to admit I am not sure about Infant Baptism as is practised in Anglican and Catholic Churches with regard to who can carry that out. I guess because I am an ordained Minister I have not given it any thought until Braves Fan asked her question.

Does that help???

Muzza

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Muzza, I am not a member of a particular denomination. I started out in the Church of Christ. I loved the church I was in until one Sunday our preacher found it necessary to preach against other religions. I found it disturbing, because I was taught that we should love one another, regardless.

When I moved to the small town I'm in now, I found a church I thought I would love. I found out that they would not accept my baptism and I could not be a member of this church without being rebaptized "into their church", and there was a lot of internal conflict. I found it quite sad that the preacher of the church (who is an awesome person, and he was the math teacher at our school, and kids loved him), had been asked by one of his students if he could attend church with him. The preacher told the young man "YES". So the young man walks into the church one Sunday, and several families saw him and got up and left. He was African American.

So to make a long story short, I decided that I would teach them here at home. And I continue to do just that. They love it because there is no time limit, there are no restrictions on what we discuss, and I can incorporate what I teach them with what's going on in their lives. They love it, and so do I because I feel like it makes us closer. And I would consider it an honor to baptize them both.

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I'm sorry to hear of your sad experiences with the "formal" church. It annoys me to hear so often similar stories. The ministers/leaders of these churches seem to have put power and trivia ahead of the important functions of the church ie.. being the love and light of Christ in the World.

I wish you God's blessings as you teach the love of God to your family and pray God will bless you richly when the time to baptise your children comes.

Muzza

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Muzza, I cannot thank you enough for your kind words. I pray the same for you, that your life will always be blessed! You and Kiwi are just "da bomb"!!

As a matter of fact, this is just an exceptional place here at ec.com. I'm so glad I came across it!!

Again, thank you!!!

Ronda

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