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marvin

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It doesn't matter Kirk. We're all free to have our opinions and freely express them. The only thing I won't do is argue. I have quanifiable reasons for saying/thinking what I do and its not a matter of debate, really. That being said, I'm interested to know what others think too. I don't honestly think that Marvin or anyone else would care enough about what I think to get upset (I would hope not).

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Michael--There are a lot of musically savvy individuals on this site and some nearly always offer differing opinions (especially the Canadians when it comes to WD). It's one of the things that keeps this site interesting while waiting for something new on Eric. Usually it is Marvin who knocks someone else's favorite off their pedestal, so it will be interesting to see what happens now that you have expressed your opinion on Bruce--Kirk.

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Michael your writing style and comments indicate to me that you are more than just a casual music listener. I respect your opinion even though you know I don't agree with it. I've had a lifetime of friends who have not understood or accepted my love for Springsteen, so reading yours and others opinions is nothing new for me. While I put a lot of creedence into lyric writing, I also feel that there is more to music than this. Music also has to move me on an emotional and spiritual level. Bruce's music does this for me, and affects me at a point where my head and heart collide.

Even though I admire some of the artists you've mentioned as being better than Bruce, it all comes down to taste and as long as you care about it yourself, nothing else really matters. Thank goodness that we all have the opportunity, the interest and the ability to agree to disagree.

Marvin

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Among my peer group, we call BS music "parade rock."

Reading the other posts, its not about "passion" "sincerity" or jumping around a lot on stage (lmao) its about "hey, can you write strong songs and actually sing and play well?"

BS went off my radar screen decades ago after he failed to show me why I should listen to him when there are artists such as Queen, David Bowie, Bad Company, Eric Carmen, etc. etc. Also, I think that people are too swayed by emotion when they see someone play live. To me, some of the best shows I've ever seen were people like Edgar Winter

The last live show I saw was Styx - I figured after that, I'de seen everyone I wanted to see (possible) and there wasn't any point in going to any more concerts. lol

I don't know where to start... if Bruce Springsteen is Parade Rock & Styx is a legitimate player (s)... I can't think of any way to reply, except that that's your opinion... It's a bit irrational, but you're allowed to have it, and if you believe it, that's fine... it still doesn't validate your point beyond your home address...

if you didn't see Bruce perform "Kitty's Back" on Conan, I would suggest trying to seek it out-- He is a great guitar player-- that or maybe check out Warren Zevon's "Disorder In The House" where Bruce's lead cuts as hard & fierce as anything Angus Young ever put on tape... not that Angus is Steve Vai or any of those other highly touted "blow hard" guitar virtuosos (i.e. Satriani) who've never written a song 1/10th as moving "The River" which is a song that's delivered by someone who can "write strong songs and actually sing and play well."

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Pierson nice to see that there is someone else on this site who feels similarly about Bruce. I gave up long ago trying to change people's opinions. Bruce's performance of "Kitty" on Conan is definitely a highlight and proves what many more-renowned guitarists have said: Bruce has a deserving place in the Guitarist Hall of Fame. With Bruce there is no middle ground: You either love him, or you don't understand.

Marvin

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From what I understood, Michael Klein was up to his neck in the music business, and so I doubt he could be called a "casual listener" by any stretch of the imagination (if that's true), but I think it's just kind of comical that Marvin can really get offended and miffed when someone suggests that the absolute center of his musical universe isn't quite as great as he "blindly follows" (remember that quote describing passionate EC fans?), but that he can just come out and say some really AWFUL things about Eric's music that just aren't true. Hmmmm--what goes around comes around, and when it comes back at one, it doesn't feel very good, does it?

smile --D

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Darlene I don't "blindly" follow Bruce and he's not the "center of my musical universe." Bruce has released a bunch of songs that I could care less for and I've been very open in my criticism of this in other Bruce forums. No need to get into it here. It doesn't bother me the least if people don't like Bruce's music - but I will do my best to give my opinions as to why Bruce mattered in 1971 and why I believe he still does in 2004. Not too many performers out there whose words and music have stayed relevant for 30+ years.

As far as my opinion on Eric's music is concerned, please enlighten me with what you mean by "he can just come out and say some really AWFUL things about Eric's music that just aren't true." You want to be passionate about Eric, that's fine, but unless I've missed something, the only "awful" comments I've made are in regard to "WD" and songs like "She Remembered."

Marvin

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Pierson nice to see that there is someone else on this site who feels similarly about Bruce. I gave up long ago trying to change people's opinions. With Bruce there is no middle ground: You either love him, or you don't understand.

Marvin

Well, I don't feel quite the same... I just recognize his talents for what they are & I realize that his sincerity & devotion are pure and connect to what is the best elements of rock and roll... I HATE "Born In The USA" & most of the album-- i felt he became overblown & the production was lame...

Almost everything he's done has made sense with what his fans expected from him as an artist... and his live shows have also reflected that... I guess you could say that the same thing goes for a band like, say, Rush (in place of Styx, who don't deserve any props), which means all of this doesn't really matter a whole lot...

If there are people who think he's over rated, they have the right to that opinion.... I think Bruce deserves most of the praise he gets-- he does work for it and he truly has the talent--and he UNDERSTANDS the spirit of rock and roll---

Rush, on the other hand, work hard and do well by their fans, but have never shown an inkling of grasping the spirit of rock and roll versus trying to show how expansive their musical chops are and how much they dig 'concepts'... Big difference...

but many people don't care about the spirit of rock and roll and would rather hear virtuso windbag progressive "rock" music that sounds difficult and "heady" versus someone channeling the spirit of Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Cash etc whilst creating something new and exciting...

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and they'll know we are Chritians by our love...by our love...

Seriuosly folks...back in 81? Marvin bought me ticket to to see Springsteen.

Though his style of music does not patrticularly tickle my fancy, I have to say that he THE most passionate musician I have ever seen. He may come across as being too "this" ...or too .."that"...but his passion cannot be disputed. And frankly, If none of you have have ever been moved to tears by a song, then I wouldn't expect you to recognize artists that create their art from the heart. BS is one of those guys. He does it in spades...he's not afraid to lay it all out there....he's not trying to sell anything...he listens to his heart...

Bahoo

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But I like Bruce's voice. I'm just amazed that he can sing that style for hours, without blood vessels popping in his neck and his brain. His next CD should be called "Aneurysm Proof".

How do I look when I try to sing like The Boss?

( crazy )

How do people look when they hear me try to sing like The Boss?

( mad )

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Lots of interesting comments have been posted while I was traveling. First of all, I would like to say that everyone on this board is polite and I appreciate the lack of personal attacks because of someone's opinion. Its refreshing.

Secondly I would like to say that the difference between the technical singing proficiency of BS compared to say, Dennis DeYoung should be abundandly clear based upon the number of notes in the melody alone! What it comes down to is this - I simply cannot listen to music which is sung by someone with little/no technique (yelling is _not_ a technique). I do not care one bit how *amazing* the performance is otherwise, because I can't get past that fact that someone else who can sing should have done the recording! This is also why I cannot stand Andreas Bocchelli, but I can listen to Placido Domingo all day. My favorite singer bar none, is Mario Lanza.

Byran Adams isn't much of a technical singer, but he's better than BS, plus he is a much better writer too IMHO. Isn't someone going to defend him? lol

Like most "rules" in life, there is an exception for me. Call me inconsistient if you wish, but there is one person no earth who cannot sing for sh*t; nevertheless everything he does is Golden to me, and that is Mr. Joe Cocker.

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Michael--There are a lot of musically savvy individuals on this site and some nearly always offer differing opinions (especially the Canadians when it comes to WD). It's one of the things that keeps this site interesting while waiting for something new on Eric. Usually it is Marvin who knocks someone else's favorite off their pedestal, so it will be interesting to see what happens now that you have expressed your opinion on Bruce--Kirk.

Kirk, things are cool man - no worries at all. One thing I have found is this - nearly everyday someone points out something that I never noticed before. The day that I stop listening and considering these things is the day that I stop learning. As I said before, I have quantifiable reasons for saying/thinking what I do, but, these reasons are under constant modification.

As we used to say "you're only as good as your last record" and hopefully they keep getting better and better.

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Well Michael let's just say that we agree to disagree about Springsteen. That's ok. In regard to some of the other comments you've made:

- With Joe Cocker, it's more a question of style than anything else. Personally I think he is a great singer - especially on his late 60's output and songs like "The Letter" and "Bye Bye Blackbird."

- I used to like Bryan Adams' stuff before he became really popular (even saw him at McGill University in 1980 when there were no more than 100 people in the audience), but there's no way I'd say that he is a better writer than Springsteen. Though Bryan is quite adept at writing songs with strong hooks, in my opinon his songs are pretty disposable. Will any of his songs have the lasting impact that Springsteen's have had? I don't think so.

I don't know how much of Springsteen's music you are familiar with, but I could easily put together a disc of some of his unreleased and less-known stuff that you'd swear was the best Pop music you'd ever heard.

Marvin

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Well Michael let's just say that we agree to disagree about Springsteen. That's ok. In regard to some of the other comments you've made:

- With Joe Cocker, it's more a question of style than anything else. Personally I think he is a great singer - especially on his late 60's output and songs like "The Letter" and "Bye Bye Blackbird."

- I used to like Bryan Adams' stuff before he became really popular (even saw him at McGill University in 1980 when there were no more than 100 people in the audience), but there's no way I'd say that he is a better writer than Springsteen. Though Bryan is quite adept at writing songs with strong hooks, in my opinon his songs are pretty disposable. Will any of his songs have the lasting impact that Springsteen's have had? I don't think so.

I don't know how much of Springsteen's music you are familiar with, but I could easily put together a disc of some of his unreleased and less-known stuff that you'd swear was the best Pop music you'd ever heard.

Marvin

I love Dave Mason's "We Just Disagree" lol

Bryan's music already has. Here in Asia, there are techo versions of his stuff such as "Heaven" going around. Bryan's music is absolutely pop radio fare - no doubt about it, but then again, that is how people find out about new music, so radio tunes are good. Remember, he was only 18 years old when "Cuts Like A Knife" hit the air in North America. Anyway, I'm not aware of any lasting "impact" of BS' tunes, but then again I surely am not looking for it. More likely its the impact of the recorded sounds - such as the AMS sampled snare on "Born in the USA" and recorded in the Power Station, that people remember. All the recording engineers I knew were were talking more about the snare sound than the tune (rightfully so).

I appreciate the offer Marvin, but I will pass. I heard BS all through the mid 70's up until I left the US. Thankfully, he's totally off the radar now as the people here don't like him. I didn't like his released stuff, so I'm sure I won't like the stuff that never made it to the press.

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Marvin, I'd love that CD. I'm not a big Bruce fan. I just have his Greatest Hits CD. I just know his radio hits and know he wrote "Pink Cadilac" and "Fire" that other artists mad hits...

As for Rock and Roll, there's this guy I've been getting into recently. From 1997-2002, nobody has been writing better rock songs than...Butch Walker.

Have I mentioned him before?... angry

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Just got the first Marvelous 3 (Math and Other Problems) CD to fill out my Butch Walker collection from 1997-2002. Except The Floyds CD which I can't find anywhere. Now I can start to put together the best of Butch Walker music CD once I absorb this CD. So far, not as good as the most recent 3 CDs. Butch is getting better with each CD. I can hardly wait for his new release. He's spending too much time producing other artists like Avril. Her new CD has a nice harder edge to it...What website am I on again?

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