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Mel Gibson's wife files for divorce......


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The truth as Hitler "honestly saw it" resulted in the Holocaust.

Should we respect his "honestly held views" as well, because HE really believed them? Was there "nothing evil or inherently wrong with 'The World According To Adolph'"?

Should we also respect the views of Stalin and Pol Pot because they "honestly believed them?"

Hate is hate.

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Eric, I was referencing his religious opinion on who goes to hell, and who doesn't. I don't agree with him, but there is nothing inherently hateful or evil about the opinion. It's truth as he sees it, and there's no malice there as far as I can see. I'm sure it pains him to believe that a good person goes to hell over religious technicalities.

Many Baptists at TCU (my college) likely thought I was destined for hell because I was a practicing Catholic at the time. But they were wonderful loving people who cared enough to try to re-direct me. They weren't rude, they weren't pushy, they just cared about me enough to invest in me.

I never bought the Baptists point of view but I remained friends with them. To this day I respect them as much as any bunch I've met in my life.

If I'm secure with myself, the fact Mel Gibson thinks I'm going to hell does not threaten me, nor is it an assault against me.

It's just his belief system, and there's nothing inherently evil or malicious in this belief.

Comparing it to Hitler's idealogy doesn't work.

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It goes to motive. Hitler's only motive was to "cleanse" the world to his own liking and then be the supreme King of it. He was a demonic madman and deserved even much worse than he got. Also, I don't believe Hitler's demented "plan" was one he truly believed in because he himself had Jewish lineage, which he knew about and tried to hide. His given name came about through adoption. His original name was Jewish and he knew it. I don't think he honestly believed in his scheme--I think it was just a purely evil machination he put to the world just to see if he could do it.

I don't see Mel Gibson's motives as comparable to those of Hitler, however much of a womanizer he may be. He, like all of us, has a belief system which, like it or not, has been influenced by his upbringing. It's my understanding that he adheres to his religious beliefs. The fact that he believes certain people may not make the pearly gates doesn't make him a monster nor a Hitler.

I think he's less disingenuous than some of our own political leaders who lie, steal and cheat but who are afforded honor and glory when they deserve to be vilified.

smile --Darlene

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Good post, James.

I happen to disagree with you on this point, however. I find any belief system that states, positively, that people who follow other belief systems are condemned to hell for all eternity absolutely appalling!

It is the ultimate conceit. No one on this earth has ever known "positively" who is or isn't going to hell. There is no way they can ever know.

I had a similar conversation with my brother-in-law, who I love dearly, just a few days ago. He quoted me a line from the New Testament in which Jesus says "I am the way. You only get to the Father through me (I'm paraphrasing).

And I asked him how a loving God could condemn countless millions of people to Hell, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims etc. when in fact, they had never heard of Jesus.

His thinking involved their ability to get the message NOW, but what about all the hundreds of millions of people who lived and died before the information age, on the other side of the Earth, who had no way of ever having heard the teachings of Jesus?

He said he really didn't know, but it was right there in the book.

And that reminded me of Mel's "statement from the chair" line.

I don't feel "threatened" by Mel's beliefs, because I think they're completely ludicrous and based on nothing. And I DO find inherent evil in teaching a child that his mother is going to hell because she worships differently.

Just think about the impact that statement would have on a young child, who loves his mother.

I think it's tantamount to child abuse.

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I never bought the Baptists point of view but I remained friends with them. To this day I respect them as much as any bunch I've met in my life.

Whew....I'm pleased about that James, insane ..a New Zealand one mind you and that can mean there are probably some differences in doctrine as well as interpretation. I think it is this aspect of "organised" religion that frustrates me and of course leads to the problem Eric has encountered with his brother-in-law. I would probably differ in some details with the brother-in-law's stance and I'm not even going to suggest anyone is going to hell. It's not my role to judge, I'll let God do that and in the mean time encourage anyone in their search of the truth.

Mel's stance leaves no room for discussion or consideration and therefore he has to live with the difficulty of those he loves apparently, according to him, going to hell.

And as to the "excitement" of his divorce; it is my understanding they have been separated for a while so it surely is no surprise and really doesn't warrant the extensive media attention it's getting. Oh, silly me.... this is Mel Gibson we're talking about!!! :rolleyes:

Muzza cool

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I worship The Darlene-lama king ...for a reason.

And Eric, we agree in that I'll never claim to know who goes to heavan and who doesn't. The God I know doesn't condemn to hell sincere people because they didn't choose Jesus. It's one reason I don't buy the bible word for word.

But I don't look down on those that have clarity on the heaven & hell thing. They believe there's one path to heaven, and I respect that.

I don't know anything about Mel telling his kids their mom is going to hell. If the kids were young and he told them their mother is going to hell, then I agree that that's atrocious. I had never heard that, but again I don't follow Mel Gibson closely.

I hope he works through his issues, and continues to make some great movies. Braveheart is in my top 5 of alltime.

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I think we can all believe in the Darlene-Lama smile I also believe we can trust in a loving and just God. God judges people according to the truth that has been revealed to them. For people living in the past or in remote places, that might amount to what has been revealed in nature. It will be different for everyone. The real question is, what did you do with what God has revealed to you? On that, we will all be judged. I don't think we have to be concerned about God condemning us for the wrong reasons.

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Braveheart is in my all-time top 5 also, James. I'm in love with that movie. I had a little Scottish cellist who was a very gifted boy and his mom and I became very close. She thought it was cool that I used to call him "my little William Wallace." When they moved back to Scotland, it broke my heart. That movie reminds me of them.

I can't imagine that Gibson is telling his children their mom will go to Hell. And they shouldn't get it from the media, because if the Gibsons are smart, they'll keep their children away from media rantings.

Kirk said it very well. God judges one's heart, since he can read hearts. A truly good person will never be found wanting in God's eyes.

smile --Darlene

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Mel Gibson is just a person. I don't see why folks are so interested in his divorce. But, of course, he's a celeb so I suppose that makes the difference.

However, it seems to me that, according to this board, evil depends on where you stand. To American Indians, Hitler was no worse than Andrew Jackson. And minds and hearts don't want to mention the American Holocaust where over five thousand men, women and children - elders and babies - died.

Oh, and we didn't have a hell in our beliefs until outside contact. Hell was a concept that went against our relationship with the Creator. We believe that He is a loving God. Our traditional beliefs are centered on Him and His creations. We are all one and everything we do eventually reflects on everyone else. This was, and still is, our purpose for walking the white path (the rightous road).

As for the beliefs of others... we respect them but that doesn't mean we have to agree with them. To force ones beliefs on others is not the way of the Keetoowah.


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To the Huron, Andrew Jackson was a saint compared to their enemy, the Iroquois. The Aztecs were brutal to the weaker tribes they conquered down in modern day Mexico. The Seminole practiced slavery.

There is good & bad in all peoples, American Indian, American Caucasions, American Blacks etc etc.

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