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It just doesn't end...


LC

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I don't pretend to have the answer to the war in Iraq, or the war on terrorism, or whatever it is. But it's so disheartening to read daily news reports like this one, from about an hour ago, that tells about a suicide bomber at a marketplace in Iraq today that killed 100 people!:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070708/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

The story notes, "The marketplace devastation underlined a hard reality in Iraq: There are not enough forces to protect everywhere."

I'm sure George W.'s response will be to send more troops. But clearly, this is another Viet Nam --- Bush's Viet Nam. There won't be a day where we "win" and pull out. And IMHO, we oughta bring our troops home tomorrow morning.... (I have a nephew who's in the Navy and is also learning to fly fighter jets.... He's not over there, but who knows what'll happen?)

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I thought the same thing when I read that article, LC. It seems EVERY day we're hearing reports of our troops and innocent Iraqi citizens being killed..and my heart just breaks for the children of Iraq, who have never known anything other than war and hate.

I say a prayer every day for the safe return of our brave men and women, and that somehow, this chaos will end soon. pray

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This was a news item that caught my attention a few weeks ago-

About 10,000 US troops backed by helicopters and armored vehicles began a major offensive against al-Qaida militants in Iraq today, killing at least 22 suspected insurgents.

I’m sure there is more to this than was reported, but it took 10,000 heavily armed American soldiers to kill 22 bad guys?

Without going into the debate of the cost of lives vs the cost of equipment, how many millions of dollars did this offensive cost American taxpayers? 10,000 troops, who knows how many helicopters and armored vehicles (what do they cost to build?; the cost to keep them running?), and all that was accomplished was killing 22 of the enemy???

One car bomb kills 100. What did that cost? One junker and some explosives- I’ll bet less than $3000.

All wars are costly to the American family (again, both in lives and dollars), but this one is a real joke. Just like we could not effectively fight the “gorilla†soldiers in Vietnam, we cannot effectively fight a suicidal enemy who is willing to strap explosives onto his (or her) body, walk or drive into a crowd, and create this degree of “cost effective†death and destruction.

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I remember during Vietnam, Sen. George Aiken of Vermont in 1966 said...Why don't we just decalre victory and pull our troops out. In a lot of ways what a great thought. The sooner we get out of this quicksand the better. I have heard George W. say if we dont fight them over there we will be fighting them over hear. My Dad says...Hey we have a better chance of dealing with them here because we outnumber them. Its a sorry mess and I could go on for too long so I better shut up.

Phil

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I could go on for days too, trust me. Bush & crew are stuck on stupid!! Flimsy reasons for getting in + -- of the 3 "Axis of Evil" countries, we took on the one without nukes and was the the arch-enemy of Iran. DUH! Never liked Saddam, but he hated Iran and this was useful.

Now we have to carefully extract ourselves from this mess. I've already established the fact that I think tri-partiton of Iraq (a-la Yugoslavia) is a decent solution. --- US patrols borders of 3 new countries ( with much less troops ) while letting each new govt. handle it's own internal affairs!!

OR -- declare the Iraqi troops & security forces are coming up to speed rapidly -- leave few troops but use air power regularly at the behest of the government(s) to deal w/ uprisings ---- while having minimal troops on the ground. Our air-power is dominate & it is time to use it that way. Time for the powers that be to stop using their head(s) as something of a hat rack!!

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I said a year and a half ago that IRAQ IS A RATHOLE! American lives and billions of American tax dollars are going down a rathole. The enemy is blending in with the civilians and too many civilians that we are trying to save and/or spare are letting the bloody savages do their dirty deeds while our government is trying to prosecute our soldiers for shooting the wrong Iraqi in the heat of battle.

And the western media is so ready to magnify every mistake we make and "get Bush and Cheney at all costs", There is no way we can win the war or the hearts and minds of enough Muslim moderates to do the right thing...

Other than that, as Ann Coulter said a few months ago, "Things are going swimmingly."

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Tony,

That's an interesting post.... Your first paragraph is right-on, and then your second paragraph seems to blame the media and sympathize with Bush & Co. And then you come back and take a nice (and deserved) jab at that scary extremist Ann Coulter (who really makes me question people who buy into her gibberish!). So I think you're on the right side... as long as you're not seeing Bush as a victim of media reporting. This is his war, and it'll ultimately be the biggest blemish on his record as president....

Raspy, good story there. And the first line says it all: 'A progress report on Iraq will conclude that the U.S.-backed government in Baghdad has not met any of its targets for political, economic and other reform, speeding up the Bush administration's reckoning on what to do next..."

Geez, I wonder what the phrase "what to do next" means in GW's eyes? Send over 100,000 more troops?

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Tony, in the future, please clear your posts with LC before putting them up on the board..

Bush may be the devil, or he may be something better. He deserves criticism. But the press, and the country, with frothing mouths and glee, have lacerated him way beyond anything a level headed person would consider reasonable. We're at war and most all of our energy is dedicated to indulging in, and justifying, our hate for Bush and the other whipping boys.

Bush will be gone in 18 months. This whiny, ultra-venenous attitude won't. We are the good guys in this international confrontation; it's time we got this clear in our heads. But every time you turn around you see pandering to the Muslim community and U.S. self-immolation.

It's this attitude, IMHO, that's our greatest threat.

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James, thanks for that request to Tony. But... perhaps I should clear my posts with you before putting them up...?

:-) Just teasing....

Hey, upon thinking about it, I do agree that the media is overblown and does way to much editorializing --- on both sides! (Not just the anti-Bush side, but the anti-anti-Bush side, too.)

I think I've posted elsewhere about how the state of journalism today is pitiful. Here, I was just saying that the media didn't make Bush's decisions for him. He and his team have made their own decisions (and I happen to think a lot of them aren't good ones, IMHO). And I'm saying the media SHOULD be thoroughly reporting on those decisions....

But the media too often doesn't play it straight.... Bush is painted to be the devil in some corners, and in other corners, the media says "lay off W" while smearing his detractors (usually, Democratic hopefuls) at every turn. I mean, does John Edwards' haircut expenditure deserve as much play as it's gotten?

I find it sickening to see the way the media spins things (my degree is in journalism). The spin seems more important than the story. "Op-ed" stuff is freely mixed in with "hard news." And there should be a clear delineation... IMHO...

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Reports will emerge almost immediately that Bush and Co. have achieved 0% in terms of achieving their alledged goals and plans for Iraq which suggests that either they are completely incompetent...or that they NEVER had any intention of working toward ANY of the 'agenda' they put forward as a way of selling their 'war'.

Or...more likely...it suggests BOTH.

Calls for a far more immediate withdrawal will echo from Alaska to Hawaii to Puerto Rico and all American points in between.

It really was an action intended to make SOME people rich while coldly spending the lives of the [primarily disenfranchised] youth of their nation in order to realize larger bank accounts.

The man...and his 'people' are criminals of the highest/lowest order and he has put the entire western world's 'position' at risk in order to serve his own uniquely selfish means.

I hope he eventually gets tried...and hung...'til he's dead.

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James is almost as common sense smart as Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck. (And that is genius common sense smart!)

If the idiot Iraqis would have seen this opportunity to have a decent democratic country and fought to keep the mad bombers and throat cutters from creating chaos, and found a way to stop killing each other just because they worship Allah in a different way than the idiots in the next province...all this might have turned out OK for the world.

Bush and his old cronies didn't understand or plan for what a mess they were getting into, so it has turned out to be "his war".

The only part of the plan that worked was that his buddies made a tidy profit, but I believe his original intentions to create a stable free democratic ally with lots of oil for the USA was a noble idea.

Bush and Cheney should resign for the good of the country. Start the war corruption investigations, but you will get no support if you try to nail him for Gitmo or domestic spying, like the looney left is whining about.

However, who will be the interim President till 2008. Can we dig up Gerald Ford and prop him up on a dolly or something?

Can't do any worse than GW... :rolleyes:

So, Gore and LC think Global Warming is the most important issue of our time?... Oh brother. Indifferent

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Bush and Cheney should resign for the good of the country.

Tony, you rock! That's an astute statement....

As for global warming, well, it does sort of affect more people, but I'm not sure I ever ranked it above or below the war on Iraq/terror. Maybe I did, I dunno -- do I have to go through that whole 18-page Al Gore thread to find out?

(Actually, I just might -- just for the fun of it!) haha

I like the idea of propping up Mr. Ford in the Oval Office. Heck, I'd even take George Bush Sr. propped up in the Oval Office....

--LC

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No doubt Global Warming is upon us but we don't know how much is natural or man-made??? I hear there can be some benefits from more CO2 in the air ---- certain things are more lush like crops & poison ivy ( fun little ditty ).

Plus averting a pole shift is a good thing.

Read Pole Shift by John White if you get a chance.

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The problem from the beginnig was, we went into a society that is still divided up into "tribes". Last night on the news it was reported that The Iraqi parliment is divided over what's best for thier tribes that they represent. How on Earth can you bring democracy into a situation like that? My Father fought in WWII, and he predicted what was going to happen with this mess right from the beginning.

after all we went through with Clinton's impeachment over his "affair", why hasnt there been any talk of impeachment of Bush and Cheney? In my eyes, what they have done is FAR worse then Clinton's exploits!

Jeff

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Poor4Life : Good points. I've been saying we need to have Iraq split into 3 countries at least.

Fix a chunk at a time --- the slow pokes have only themselves to blame.

I heard it said of Bosnia, Serbia & Croatia

(former Yugoslavia) that the grown-ups (America

& Europe) dealt w/ them like most annoyed parents would --- more interested in quiet than justice actually. Worked pretty well. In Iraq we have neither because grown-up governments are not involved!!

Once saw poster on TV that read "No one died when Clinton lied" -- this is the truth. Bill ain't perfect but he's way better than the lamers & flamers in there now.

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I was watching the news "runner" across the bottom of the screen on our local news channel.....something about Pelosi and impeaching Bush??? Is this something that's fixing to really be done?

Oh, and as for the war....I gotta agree with your dad Sterling....And as far as "believing" in the cause....I don't...as far as supporting our troops...I DO 100%, I just think enough of them have died (one was too many) during this "war"

Ronda

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Ronda,

I believe what you saw was the woman (it's too early in the morning for me to remember names) that protested the war outside Bush's ranch, has said that if Pelosi and the democrats don't start proceedings to impeach, she's going to run for Pelosi's postition.

Jeff

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Jeff, thanks for clearing that up for me....I only got a glance at it. I got to thinking though...if those types of proceedings were started, and he was indeed impeached, would the command not go to Cheney??? Same chain of command followed if a President cannot fulfill his duty?

Ronda

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This comes from a great-grandmother who never watches the news and hates politics. (I DO vote; I figure if you don't, then you can't complain. I try at election time to make an informed choice, but no matter who you vote for, it's a crapshoot, and I DO mean crap.)

Anyway, on to my reason for this post. Many months ago George W. said that as long as he is in office, there will be troops in Iraq. There it is, plain and simple; he has us there because HE CAN. He doesn't need to give anyone a reason even if he could come up with one.

I wonder how many of the politicians have kinfolk over there??!! My guess is NONE.

In my opinion, this is one thing against term limits. If a politician knows he or she cannot run again, they can do anything they want to. They have nothing to lose.

When they talked about impeaching Clinton, (I think they did actually) I thought that when a president is impeached, he was out. I don't think that is always true; it can be just censure. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Besides, if Bush was thrown out, who would we get?? It's pretty frightening to think about the choices. arrgh

What we really need is reform to get rid of the system in which you have only two real choices (bad and worse) at election time. You know that if you vote for the candidate from another party, he will not win. If someone can come with a plan for change, I'd carry a placard or something. (There's a visual!!)

I'll get off my soapbox now; didn't mean to go on and on. We still live in the best place; it just needs a little cleaning up!!!

cool chick auntie

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