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DEBATE # 2 OBAMA VS. MCCAIN


Tony Cartmill

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Tony - social security aint all bad & could be a good thing if we could get the fed 'gubment' to stop spending like an out of control manic. however, as you know, your preferred 'conservative' party & president has led us thru a $5 trillion deficit spending orgy in 8 years (an amount greater than the previous combined 60 years!!!). the dems should also be bitch-slapped for not demanding this spending frenzy be caged & subdued for the past 2 years (hollies will enjoy coming across my authorship of this line if he reads it)

imagine what we could do w/ a budget surplus & lack of deficit year in & year - guarantee SS's solvency, for one thing, which most middle class americans need

man, we are all still vamping on 'debate #2' thread while 'debate #3' thread is all crickets..

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Anybody who spews almost nothing but left-wing talking points seems more limited in thoughtful converation than the fiscal conservative/social moderate-slanted crap that I'M serving on a cracker!

RBW, you don't back up with any examples that you "view" will make anything better in this country in times of crisis. Just a constant barrage of "Right = evil, stupid, wrong...Left = correctness, hope, fairness...

Do you seriously want more legislative power for the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Murtha, Rangel...? That's as bad, maybe even worse than what we've had for the last 8 years!

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TC, Im a Ron Paul fan for God's sake. I cant stand Nancy Pelosi or Reid, but I do believe Obama has more to offer to right this ship, put the U.S. on a better path for all, not just some. I do think Palin is a lightweight drip; a trained puppet to appease the far right trenches. As another poster wrote elsewhere: "McCain seems angry, defensive, sarcastic, convinced he's right, a glib smart ass. Sounds like another President weve known recently.." I agree with this assessment as the primary reason for "more of the same" besides the policy/philosophy comparisons to Republican ideology that has failed us. McCain is no refomer or maverick, its interesting so many have bought into this. Look at the record.

P.S. ; I like Jack Murtha

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ron paul? - rbw will apparently not treat me as a leper after all. rbw, the quote about mccain is dead-on, as is your own quote about palin. this is largely why the big chunk in the middle is drifting away en masses from mccain's grasp

the 'scare tactics' thing is a HUGE issue too, & it has become the repub signature, waaaayyyy overused, & even tho' it has often worked for them (inducing fear *always* does w/ a large swath of american voters), i am glad to see it finally backfiring on them

the libertarian votes were for local positions, btw, incl our tax-assessor collector! TX always has a healthy dose of them on the ballots

not that i care, but this could even earn me a notch or two on the tc/h65 dynamic duo's belt. but probably not ;-)

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Good points Austin! But as I recall over the last 8 years, except for Iraq, The worthless DEM leadership was always right there saying that the big fat Bush spending budgets were "not going far enough!"

The senior drug plan, "was a compromise and didn't cover enough!"

The most expensive education budget in history "didn't go far enough!"

Extention of unemployment benefits "didn't cover long enough!" (Hey, if you can't get another job after 18 months, you are either aiming too high, not willing to compromise, or getting too used to those nice monthly Gub-ment checks)

Pathetic...

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Ha!, was doesnt Bush excercise his ultimate veto powers if he was so concerned about fiscal responsibility, Amnerican debt, the Congresional attitude? The fact is Bill Clinton was more of fiscal conservative. The reason Bush wouldnt is because he wanted the hundreds of billions for his primary interest: a pre-emptive war against the wrong folks in Iraq. He was willing to bankrupt America to get his war and its funding. Any American who thinks that unemployment benefits shouldnt be extended in these times, as many good folks are being displaced and financial firms and banks are bailed out, is beyond discription. Thats always the position until its those persons or their friends being let go.

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I honestly don't know how there could be two sides to the question of this election. Sure, I always hoped Al Gore would take his rightful place in the White House; failing that, I actually leaned toward Hillary, though not with the same passion. BUT... after watching how the race has unfolded, I can look at Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin and say, "How hard of a decision is this? Where's the dilemma?"

You know what I find appalling? That we had to spend eight years of our lives --- EIGHT YEARS! --- in a country run by a boob who should never have had the job! Maybe Dastardly Dick Cheney was running things more so than the Shrub, as A-berries likes to call him, but the results are the same.

Life is so freakin' short, and it just sucks that we've had two Bush terms in which our national deficit spiraled out of control, the economy dropped like a brick, health care has become a luxury, America has lost its international standing, environmental progress continues to be retarded, etc., etc. If life were fair, anyone who voted for George W. Bush wouldn't be allowed to vote in this election. arrgh Are you better off and happier and more optimistic now than you were when Clinton/Gore left office?

Now, I don't find John McCain appalling; I actually kind of like him. He's in a good place (senator). But his "maverick-ness" --- as illustrated by his choice of a VP --- would have made him a dangerous next president. While I'm not in love with Obama, I do agree with R-Wine's comment that he's FAR better equipped to find solutions and make the right decisions than McC.

We're finally getting Bush --- that scatter-brained numbskull with the itchy trigger finger and chip on his shoulder --- to ride on out of D.C., off into the sunset. The last thing we need is one of his mates on the Republican side to replace him.

This is where James would say, "In time, George W. will be recognized as a very effective and strong president." I just don't see it. After he's ridden off, I would just love to hear him evaluate his eight years as president, wouldn't you?

End of rant! I'm just happy that the election appears to be headed toward the right conclusion....

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Guys - To me, the problem here is one of - Who do I put my trust in? -

(1) a 72 year-old decent guy and patriot who's pretty much marched in lock-step with GWB the past 8 years on most issues....AND, if he dies, will turn the country over to a very inexperienced Governor who, frankly, doesn't really seem to have much of a grasp on national or international issues?....or

2)an obviously inexperienced but charismatic, articulate, and intelligent individual, who also appears to be very calculating and calculated, as

well as cold-blooded.....and whose voting record suggests that his philosophy is much more left of center than the platform he's running on? (But his VP nominee is probably the best of the 4 parties running, IMO...)

A vote for the former seems to me to validate most, if not all, of what's gone down the past 8 years with the Republicans. A vote for the latter is based primarily on blind faith, and what the candidate has said or is planning to do, not what he's done or accomplished.

12 days til election.....and I'm still undecided....but leaning one way.

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My vote is...................................

We close this thread.

Why? Because it is no longer people sharing opinions. It has become a childish and nasty name calling debacle. We have devolved to the- Your A Moron - stage. How disappointing!

No one's, oh so perfect, opinion is going to change the other's, oh so, closed mind.

This thread started out as a sharing of opinions and has rapidly deteriorated to the point this is not a fun place to be anymore.

This petulance is not enlightening. It's an affront to the rest of the members of this board.

For my nickel, just because this is the Everything section of the board doesn't mean anything goes.

We all now know what y'all think. So, go vote your conscience.

In the meantime, let's move on to something civil.

Anyone with me on this?

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tony - u should officially retract the 'u r a moron' statement - i mean, we get hot under the collar & sarcastic & rough-&-tumble & impassioned & smart-ass & everything else in the politix rooms here, but you know, we can't go callin' each other 'morons'... ya moron! i'm totally kidding; but cereally...

& then in a coupla weeks we can all go back to being Raspberries friends & pretend we don't know anything about each other's politix

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