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DEBATE # 2 OBAMA VS. MCCAIN


Tony Cartmill

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Just like John McCain, youre attacking me Hollies and not the material. Next youll accuse me of knowing Bill Ayers! Try addressing the points, which youve done very badly. I dont hate John McCain, your thoughts. Youd be surpried to know Im a Reagan fan on the whole.

To be honest there are many great ways to honor America than spending time in a prison camp during another ill advised, and ill conceived war which ended in disgrace. I wasnt talking about John Kerry or Edwards, but I feel the same way about those guys and their hypocrasy. You took my comments, as most Conservatives would, to be more liberal than libertarian, to be more liberal than pluralist. Try reading them again.

In between commercial breaks on Glen Becks show ofcourse, yes lets keep this War going for another six years! GO team!

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Okay...I'll go slower...

Seems to me you did the attacking. You called conservatives "scary". You called listeners of Rush Limbaugh "anti minority". This is called stereotyping. You called questioning of Obama's fiscal philosophy "ludicrous".I'll stop there.

You see...you did the attacking, and I exposed it it every paragraph I wrote.

I took your comments as not liberal or libertarian, but as hateful and uninformed. I'll let others judge the posts for themselves.

Good luck with the Glen Beck thing.

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Scary in terms of the imbalance in the discussion. I stand by that absolutely, the followers of Rush Limbaugh are emphatically and completely against what they perceive of as handouts and favoritism to minorities in the U.S. Hateful and uniformed?, you need reading glasses or perhaps a brain transplant. Where are you getting your info from besides Rush and Glen? Dont tell me, Bill O'reilly?? Oh no, not another liberal attack, my apologies!! Yes let the 95% conservative audience be the judge of these posts. I know that Thomas Jefferson would at least understand....

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But of course, guys like Keith Olbermann and Bill Moyers are "Mountains of Integrity", right?

I agree with much of your previous longer post above RBW, but on other posts lately, you sound like as much of a hack for the other side as Limbaugh and Hannity are for the right.

At least O'Reilly and Beck will have an honest debate about the facts with opposing views...most of the time...Unless a chump like Barney Frank comes on and says, "It's 100% the other guy's fault..."

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Keith Olberman? yikes why mention him? I dont like his show, and I think hes guilty of the same pandering that Glen Beck engages in. He repeats himself all the time just like Beck and Hannity.

I think neo-conservatives like to simplify issues and not engage them in sufficient detail to reach conclusions. This is being done with Obama, the economic issues, abortion, and just about everything else in this election.

I dont think I could ever be as big a hack as Hannity. I listened to his radio show the other day and everything was a personal attack on Obamas character. Nothing issues-based at all. Theres nothing wrong with Obamas character, its just that people want you to believe theres something wrong with Obamas character.

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Back in the day... there was no conservative media. It was just media. Now I know some of you will say the media is liberal...

and the majority probably is. But journalism was a highly regarded professional career... "being subjective" was always the goal, and the FTCs Fairness Doctrine made television and radio give the same amount of time to each party. As a producer back then, it was a pain in the a__ to make sure we documented everything, and file reports that took up so much time. But it seems there wasn't such negativity during elections. You have to remember these guys are going back to Washington after the election and they will remain working associates and friends. This horrible negativity that both (all) parties engage in only hurts our country.

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What you did [Why am I explaining this AGAIN] was to paint listeners of Rush Limbaugh as racists...People questioning Obama's economic redistribution polcies were "ludicrous",Rush and other conservatives were "morons". What you did was attack and name call.

As for you posts, I called them unreadable...they ARE poorly written. Sorry.

You have no idea of my world, feel free to criticize all you like, it says much more about you than me. Try and control yourself. This is a internet message board.

BTW, when I did address you, it was in response to your ill informed hot air. What is with this "You Folks" stuff. You stereotype like a typical racist.

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You should talk about poorly written, 5000+ posts from you and maybe two make any sense whatsover.

Sorry, I can assure you any racism is on your side of the philosophical/political fence. I stand by that, Rush plays the race card over and over for his listeners. Sometimes overtly, sometimes in a coded manner, but done to appease his many listeners who feel that minorities in the U.S. are receiving unfair handouts or support or attention. Why not be clear Hollies, and deny that this is the case? In fact, it is the case.

Glad to see you labeling so many facts as "hot air." Another wonderful Conservative strategy. Similar to the Bush admin.; if they tell the public its true often enough, maybe theyll eventually believe it.

Did you even stop to consider what I wrote on the criticisms of people hurling accusations of wealth redistribution at Obama and what was meant? You obviously couldnt take it in for ideological reasons.

I agree, I dont know why you are explaining again because you are incapable of explaining the many opinions you expressed in this thread, which you accept at face value from television, Conservative talking points, wherever.

I am not criticizing your world. I am commenting on your opinions in a public thread and the comments you directed at me.

Bottom line, to each his own. Sorry your positions are so thin skinned as to consider alternative exaplanations.

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Scary in terms of the imbalance in the discussion. I stand by that absolutely....

R-Wine, I would agree with you that "scary" is valid in the way you used it. But... as you know, we're outnumbered here. If EC.com members alone were responsible for electing the next president, I'm certain we'd have McCain and Palin in the White House by a landslide!
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Back in the day... there was no conservative media. It was just media.... But journalism was a highly regarded professional career... "Being subjective" was always the goal, and the FTCs Fairness Doctrine made television and radio give the same amount of time to each party....

Excellent points, BLV. Sadly, those days are gone. Today, the lines between "subjective reporting" and "editorializing" are so blurred that it's silly. And way too many people get their "news" and "facts" from blowhard talking heads who want to persuade rather than inform.
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Yes LC, when I read the orginal premise of the thread DEBATE: McCain vs. Obama I somehow erroneously thought this would be a discussion of differing viewpoints on the Country's serious problems, policies, and the candidates.

But after reading quite a bit of it, it was clear it was a one sided affair with people patting themselves on the back for their shared collective and somewhat narrow opinions. One thing is clear is the amount of vicitimization thinking in the argumentation: It's big government's fault, it's Obama, its handouts for minorities, its liberal media, etc etc.

As I tried to point out in my original post, the core issue isnt a problem of the right or left. Its a problem of the powerful right and left collectively. Neither Rush Limbaugh or Keith Olberman are truly patriotic in my opinion because they, and their organizations, feed the disension for power and profit.

Rush would be proud of EC.com, its a haven for the right wing fringe apparently.

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Thank you, Hollies (I think). Thanks R-Wine. I'm a little soured on politics, frankly, because any debate on political issues (not just here, but EVERYWHERE) get so heated and personal and off-topic.

Isn't is kind of sad to think that almost half the nation is going to be either POed or disgusted or at least mildly disappointed after Election Day?

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Im certainly embarrassed by your posts Hollies. I seem to recall you addressed my post first. Again, sorry it made you uncomfortable. I should have written this instead:

"Rush is a radio God, Obama what a liar that guy hanging out with islamic terrorists and wanting to give my money to some bum down the street that is a free loader. I'll be so glad when we finally bomb those Iraqui's back into the stone age and show everyone just how democracy and freedom works. Serves em right. If we never gave those dead beat immigrants mortgages our economy would be thriving today. It's the Socialist liberal media Im telling you, wanting to spend my tax dollars on Spanish classes"

Sadly, no one would have blinked.

Please substitute all my posts in this thread for this one above.

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