I don't know if any of you saw the Charlie Rose Show...

[LC]

I've been trying to get a word in on this memorable post...

...I'm not looking forward to an Obama presidency. Am I supposed to abandon my core beliefs because the guy won an election? Did you 8 years ago?

No, you don't need to abandon your core beliefs, H65. You shouldn't, and I'd be disappointed if you did.

But at the same time, you can make an effort to:

* clear your mind of the propaganda that's helped make you a Bush Sympathizer and a McCain/Palin Supporter and open your mind to the possibilities that come with a new administration;

* fight negative instincts toward our incoming president;

* consider that maybe, just maybe, you aren't always right.

It seems to me that the United States is hoping -- based on the popular and electoral votes -- to move AHEAD, beyond the eight years in which George W. Bush was our leader and president. Many of his decisions turned out to be not so good, to put it nicely. Perhaps you feel Bush is being unfairly blamed for all of the "issues" Americans are dealing with (especially the economy). But let's face it: He was the president, and the buck stops there. Unless he comes up with an incredible "Hail Mary" of a touchdown in his last two months, his legacy is iced, and it ain't good.

If you step back and really think hard about the direction he took our great country, you might conclude that he was the wrong man for the job, and that he got away with murder, in a sense. It was time to move on. I don't see how you couldn't be at least a little bit excited about Obama's win. Rather, I'm still reading comments from you and your cohorts that Obama is going to crash and burn. I'm positive that negativity doesn't help anyone.

[chris hess]

lost me on that one steve!?! what the hell was that?..and i mean a humorous approach by the way!! lol,chris

[hollies65]

I am not excited that Obama won...at all! I do know it was a historic moment in this country's history, all Americans can be proud of how far this country has come in terms of race.

I don't need to clean my head of any propaganda, I'm a pretty bright guy and I form my opinions based on information and experience. It sounds to me that you think 56 million people who did not vote as you did are not as enlightened as you are. That's silly.

Bush had plenty of problems...among them, spending,which I'm afraid is going to continue to be a problem.

I believe McCain would have made a much better leader than Obama...Obama's a huge liberal for God's sake! That's why Mac got my vote. Obama won...and I want Obama to to well...My business is getting killed, I have young children...I'm not rooting for him to screw it up.

BTW, you may have me confused with some of the other guys on my side of the fence who HAVE been vocal about Obama...which is their right.

[chris hess]

i just asked what do we agree on,that's all..i'm by no means questioning you personally..you are a very bright person,especially polotics,as many are here..and that's a damn good thing especially now in these f'd up times..now,back to my question..to anyone who can reply,it's a hard one to answer to..lol,chris

[hollies65]

Chris...my post above yours was a response to Larry...I answered your question in another thread...MUSIC! and dogs.

[chris hess]

oops,my bad!! lol,chris

[chris hess]

p.s. that's why i stay out of political talks here!..i get in worse standings all the time here!! no harm intended..lol,chris

[hollies65]

And...Good pecan pie...The Andy Griffith Show, Good guitars...Brunettes, blonds...Kids...Sunshine

[chris hess]

alrighty then!! chris

[pretender]

Hollies,I absolutely agree with you on the 3 songs.

[elle4ec]

Unless he comes up with an incredible "Hail Mary" of a touchdown in his last two months, his legacy is iced, and it ain't good.

Oh, LC, I knew you were a secret Cowboy fan at heart!! Of course, I'm referring to Roger Staubach, my personal Cowboy hero, and to whom all this "Hail Mary" stuff is credited to...

[sterling]

Or was it Doug Flutie of Boston College who in 1984 through the very famous "Hail Mary" pass.

[Kirk]

At the end of every 'hail mary' comes an 'immaculate reception'- famous Chinese proverb

[JohnO]

Guys - Regarding the success or failure of Bush's presidency, I'll post the following editorial from Sunday's Washington Post from Dov Zakheim, one of the President's senior foreign policy advisors during the 2000 campaign (and one of the most notorious hawks when it came to the wars - not surprisingly, he has also worked for several defense contractors, and is currently VP of Booz-Allen & Hamilton, once referred to in Congress as "the 4th branch of the Federal Government"!)......

"It is not exactly a blinding insight to note that the Republican Party has lost its way. The election of Barack Obama was simply the result of an intellectual decline that began with the start of President Bush's reelection campaign in the summer of 2003 and continued unabated, culminating in Gov. Sarah Palin's unabashed appeals this year to resentful, blue-collar Republican culture warriors.

Palin's error, John McCain's error and the GOP's error was to assume that a shrinking slice of the U.S. population could constitute an increasingly large and influential faction of the party. There are simply too few culturally conservative whites to sustain a national political party. At most, that community can contribute to a larger coalition; it cannot constitute that coalition on its own.

How did we lose our bearings so badly? In late 1998, when I joined then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush's foreign policy team (famously dubbed the "Vulcans"), I was going to work for a man who stood for five key principles that many of us thought would underpin a national Republican majority for decades to come. Last week's failure stemmed from my party's failure to hew to these values.

The first and best-known of these was "compassionate conservatism," exemplified by the insistence that no child be left behind in poverty and despair -- a reflection of President Bush's determination to improve the lot of underprivileged Americans, especially minorities.

The second was modesty in international relations; we would no longer preen as the world's "indispensable nation," as the Clinton administration had boastfully put it.

The third was small government, meaning both lower taxes and less bureaucracy.

The fourth was a thorough transformation of our national defense structure, which entailed eliminating waste, cutting red tape and improving our acquisition system to produce a 21st-century military and intelligence community.

Finally, we wanted a new spirit of comity in Washington, reflecting the bipartisanship that had been the hallmark of Bush's governorship of Texas.

President Bush is a man who stubbornly adheres to the values that he believes in, but the administration and the party that he led -- my party -- abandoned every one of the five principles that catapulted him to the White House.

We did pass a No Child Left Behind education law, but many argued, especially after the disastrous response to Hurricane Katrina, that the Bush administration's conservatism was anything but compassionate.

We forgot about humility in international affairs, succumbing to the pipe dreams of neoconservatives who pinned our global reputation and power on remaking a Middle Eastern society about whose values and priorities they knew next to nothing.

We took a budget surplus and squandered it, remaining in Iraq for far too long, ignoring the profligacy of Wall Street and wasting billions in the process, leaving the nation once again hamstrung by a massive deficit and a ballooning national debt.

We tried mightily to transform the Pentagon but did little to eliminate congressional pork, fix a broken weapons-acquisition system or energize an ossified bureaucracy that was unable to manage the massive budgets that Congress continued to hand it.

And we came to a bitterly divided Washington and poured salt on partisan wounds, culminating in an ugly divide-and-rule style of politics that made sense to certain small-minded groups in certain small-minded places but had little resonance for the overwhelming majority of Americans who live, and struggle, in cities and suburbs across the country.

The United States remains a center-right nation, but it is not a bigoted or small-minded one. Ours is an inclusive, generous society. It may not want too much government, but it seeks responsible and efficient government. It eschews isolationism and admires the promise of cooperation in foreign affairs. It looks to its leaders to keep their promises, but it also wants them to win over those whose votes they did not receive.

All Americans have reason to be proud of President-elect Obama's victory. Tuesday's voting demonstrated once again the special -- indeed unique -- nature of American society. Now is the time for his loyal opposition to regroup and once again behave with the stature worthy of his victory, and of the American people's basic conservative instincts."

[LC]

Bravo, JohnO. Thanks for posting that. It's very informative. I love Zakheim's willingness to say that his party lost because it abandoned its core values --- which, when you see them outlined the way he did here, are sensible and worthy. Good stuff!

[Eric Carmen]

That was a great piece and right on target. The only thing I'd disagree with him about is his statement that "the United States remains a center-right nation." I believe the United States remains a CENTER nation, with a slight majority leaning toward fiscal conservatism and liberal social values. We can't ever seem to get that perfect candidate, precisely because the Republicans seem to have to pander to the right to get the nomination, and the Democrats seem to have to pander to the left.

I think Obama is going to surprise the daylights out of a lot of naysayers, because I think he truly wants to be "the President of ALL the people". He's inherited the worst mess I've ever seen. I say, let's give him a chance. We're all in this together.

[Raspbernie]

Unless he comes up with an incredible "Hail Mary" of a touchdown in his last two months, his legacy is iced, and it ain't good.

He should move everything that isn't nailed down into the Pakistan/Afghanistan border and nab Bin Laden.

[Paulie Mississippi]

I believe the United States remains a CENTER nation, with a slight majority leaning toward fiscal conservatism and liberal social values. We can't ever seem to get that perfect candidate, precisely because the Republicans seem to have to pander to the right to get the nomination, and the Democrats seem to have to pander to the left.

EC... do you have any plans between now and... oh, let's say 2012?... I can see a nice long tour of concert/campaign stops on your way to the white house!

Seriously... this is what would get my support... my vote... my meager sums of money... and all the hard work I can do and people I can cajole!

Bravo!

[Leff'tHome]

Thanks for printing that, JohnO.

[Tony Cartmill]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric Carmen:

I believe the United States remains a CENTER nation, with a slight majority leaning toward fiscal conservatism and liberal social values. We can't ever seem to get that perfect candidate, precisely because the Republicans seem to have to pander to the right to get the nomination, and the Democrats seem to have to pander to the left.

EC... do you have any plans between now and... oh, let's say 2012?... I can see a nice long tour of concert/campaign stops on your way to the white house!

Seriously... this is what would get my support... my vote... my meager sums of money... and all the hard work I can do and people I can cajole!

Bravo!

"A VOTE FOR ERIC CARMEN 2012 IS A VOTE FOR COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVE LIBERAL MUSICIAN-ISM"

How's that for all-inclusive?...

[darlene]

I love it, Tony! What a First Family they would be! And Clayton and Kathryn would bring culture to the White House via music, dance and art in a richness never before seen!

That definitely is a great article and it perfectly pinpoints the reasons for my total aggravation with the Republican party.

I've been thoroughly disgusted with President Bush for a long time. I've tried to separate my disgust for his actions/inaction as a president from him as a person. I thought the Democrats were very personal in their venomous attacks on him and I took issue with that.

I can't complain about him from a financial point of view because we were far better off under him than we were under the Clintons.

It's anyone's guess as to what will happen with the economy now. Fannie Mae is already asking for MORE MONEY from the government. All I see ahead is a host of more huge bailouts, which will only make a depression last longer. Now that the Democrats are completely in charge, it will be interesting.

--Darlene

[Wendy-Ann]

"A VOTE FOR ERIC CARMEN 2012 IS A VOTE FOR COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVE LIBERAL MUSICIAN-ISM"

How's that for all-inclusive?...

Perfect, Tony...as long as he had a woman VP!

Wendy

[BEATNUT]

Even my most conservative friends would tell you Bush was a complete failure. There's a reason why his approval rating is at 20%.

Let's see: Two wars, a recession, millions of lost jobs, the collapse of the banking and insurance industries, plummeting home prices, a 10 trillion dollar debt, the stock market collapse, respect for America at an all time low worldwide, Osama Bin Laden still at large, the rise in the price of oil, the auto industry on the verge of collapse.....

Yeah, I'd say Bush has done a great job, wouldn't you?

Eric, I agree with you on almost everything. The ONLY thing is that the Insurance industry is as strong as ever. It's the Investment Banks that went under. When you say Insurance industry I see Prudential, Guardian, Hancock, Mass Mutual, Northwest Mutual, Principal Financial, etc...their ratings have either gone up or at last stayed the same. In fact one German insurance company called Allianz Life recently was upgraded by Standard and Poors to a Double AA, and is ranked 19 in the Forbes 500 International companies.

[Tony Cartmill]

Eric was talking about AIG. Isn't AIG the biggest insurance entity out there? AND THEY ARE SUCKING OUR TREASURY TEAT DRY AS WE SPEAK!

I hope the Gub-ment has some real accounting measures set up to make sure the AIG execs are using this bailout properly...but I doubt it.

Good-Bye Capitalism...George Soros, you win.

[Trindy]

Oh, for crying out loud.

Right now, Eric is making more sense than a lot of people here who are crying in their beer because The Evil Obama got elected...and we all know it's just because of his skin color, don't we? And/or because people were just sick of how much Bush sucked, even though "everyone" "loved" Reagan (message to Darlene: I didn't "love" Reagan, I despised him).

It can't POSSIBLY be because of anything having to do with what kind of a president people thought Obama would make based on other factors. Also couldn't be because they saw him as preferable to a doddering old half-senile man and his terminally stupid religious nutbar runningmate who was supposed to be the trump card who would win his vote from the "God, guns and gays" coalition... Nah...couldn't be...And, of course we know half of what Bush did wasn't really what Bush did, it can still all be blamed retroactively on Clinton and the Democrats...or on the people around him...Please, give me a BREAK!!!! *sigh*

Sorry, I guess this stuff is just getting my dander up. I'll try to be more civilized from now on, but right now I'm not in the mood. I can only listen to so much right-wing "logic" before my head starts to explode.