I don't know if any of you saw the Charlie Rose Show...

[Paulie Mississippi]

I think Bush did a fine job keeping a leaking balloon-like economy floating for several years. He inherited the DotCom disaster just as Clinton left office... got hit with 9/11 his first year in... and his tax cuts stimulated an economy to the longest bull-market run the nation has ever seen. The fact that the last year has been rough is normal... cycles happen, you can't have continued highs in the market and economy... especially when it's all artificially inflated, like building a high rise condo with twigs for a foundation, it's gonna fall one day. (And the foundation for the economy that President Bush presided over was not laid in his term, it was constructed over the Clintonian era...

Yeah, President Bush has a questionable Iraqui war on his hands... he has allowed the major gas and oil companies rape us... but again, those regulations and loopholes that they used to screw us were there with the Clinton's as well... the fact that it took until now for Exxon/Mobil and crew to wedge their tanker trucks and barges through the holes can not totally be laid on Bush either...

I guess in four years we'll be hearing how Obama kept all of his campaign promises... because he was so vague... so "creative" with his numbers and facts... that he really hasn't promised us anything... except to take from the rich and give to the poor... The press is comparing this new presidency to "Camelot"... I compare it more correctly to "Sherwood Forest"...

[danmichel]

Anger and bitterness will not change the results of the election...Barack Obama has been elected President of the United States...Deal with it...Conservatives will have to come up with a new game plan...Because the one they used to get Bush elected twice has been run into the ground...I know that if Obama does not put this country on the right road...there are plenty of conservative candidates in waiting who will be ready to give it a try...And by then they will have a better game plan than the failure that was the Bush administration...There are some bright conservative people out there who are not in denial about all that has happened...They are the ones who will carry the conservative movement forward...Because they know that the politics of perpetual bitterness is a dead end street that will get them nowhere...

[Eric Carmen]

pauliemississippi,

Did you know that James Baker III, who's law firm represents the Bush family, Exxon, and the Saudi royal family (when they were sued by the families of the 9/11 victims for funding the hijackers) has an office in The White House? He does.

Think about it. Bush, The House Of Saud and Exxon. Same attorney.

You know, when oil costs 150 dollars a barrel in Saudi Arabia, it costs 150 dollars in Houston, too.

You don't think any of the Bush's Texas "oil buddies" made out during his two terms, do you?

You should also read the history of Dresser Industries just for fun.

[TheScentLady]

Bush did far more in Africa than Clinton ever did. It will continue to be glossed over.

Now if only he would have done something on THIS continent.

[Art]

If Bush single-handedly destroyed everything I am reading here then the President of the United States is more powerful and influencial than anyone has ever imagined. That being said, all the next President has to do is wave his magic wand and fix everything. Yep, Obama can just say the word and the markets will go back up, meatheads who bought a house bigger than they could pay for will start paying their mortgages, the poorly managed US auto manufacturers will suddenly become efficient, and terrorists will no longer want to kill us.

Fact is, whether you like Bush or not, the events of the last 8 years were not entirely of his making. Yeah, he mismanaged some things, no doubt. So did Congress (both parties). So did the wall street bankers and dealmakers. So did you and I.

Until the politicians of this country can work together to identify and solve problems, instead of trying to please evrybody and buy votes, we are in big trouble.

I voted for McCain. He lost. Obama is our President now, and I wish him the greatest success and truly hope he can overcome the stigma in Washington and get things done, and done right.

[hollies65]

That was pretty well said Art.

[Paulie Mississippi]

pauliemississippi,

Did you know that James Baker III, who's law firm represents the Bush family, Exxon, and the Saudi royal family (when they were sued by the families of the 9/11 victims for funding the hijackers) has an office in The White House? He does.

Think about it. Bush, The House Of Saud and Exxon. Same attorney.

You know, when oil costs 150 dollars a barrel in Saudi Arabia, it costs 150 dollars in Houston, too.

You don't think any of the Bush's Texas "oil buddies" made out during his two terms, do you?

You should also read the history of Dresser Industries just for fun.

EC... I did not realize that Baker has an office in the White House... and I know that Bush's money is oil and he and the Arabs are in bed together, as it were. My fear with Obama is more along the line that he's made a lot of noise about nothing... and his past associations and stances make me seriously question his patriotism... as a proud veteran of our armed forces, patriotism still means something to me...

After rereading this thread, and realizing that he wants to lead by consensus rather than be a dictator, I have a glimmer of hope... providing he seeks his advice from all sides and not just from the left.

One thing I found "odd" about his press conference, don't recall ever seeing a presient elect actually stand behind a podium with the words "Office of the President Elect" on it...

I am no McCain supporter... I was not a Bush supporter either, though I did vote for him... I approach each election cycle with an open mind and try to determine which candidate I believe will do the best job... who is right for the nation at that time... and who will "rule", if you will, in a manner I am comfortable with... As the parties have wandered and wavered and tried to be both conservative and liberal, left and right, or more appropriately, find the "center"... it has become less and less important which one wins. Bush's abandoning most conservative principals is proof of that... IF Obama truly tries to be centrist... seeks the counsel of a variety of voices and weighs the options before him carefully, he could well become a better president than Bush...

All that said, one reason I was dead-set against Obama... and trying to not be "negative" or "creepy"... I did/do not see either McCain or Obama surviving their term... so the race was really between Joe Biden, who has shown himself to be as far to the left as one can get and borderline psychotic to boot... or Sarah Palin, who had little in the way of true experience (though many believe her time as mayor and governor give her more actual experience than Obama)... a woman who we know little about... and despite the fact that we often prefer the evil we know vs. the evil we don't, in this case the one I know is so horrifying that the unknown darkness is a far more tempting place...

[sterling]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric Carmen:

pauliemississippi,

Did you know that James Baker III, who's law firm represents the Bush family, Exxon, and the Saudi royal family (when they were sued by the families of the 9/11 victims for funding the hijackers) has an office in The White House? He does.

Think about it. Bush, The House Of Saud and Exxon. Same attorney.

You know, when oil costs 150 dollars a barrel in Saudi Arabia, it costs 150 dollars in Houston, too.

You don't think any of the Bush's Texas "oil buddies" made out during his two terms, do you?

You should also read the history of Dresser Industries just for fun.

EC... I did not realize that Baker has an office in the White House... and I know that Bush's money is oil and he and the Arabs are in bed together, as it were. My fear with Obama is more along the line that he's made a lot of noise about nothing... and his past associations and stances make me seriously question his patriotism... as a proud veteran of our armed forces, patriotism still means something to me...

After rereading this thread, and realizing that he wants to lead by consensus rather than be a dictator, I have a glimmer of hope... providing he seeks his advice from all sides and not just from the left.

One thing I found "odd" about his press conference, don't recall ever seeing a presient elect actually stand behind a podium with the words "Office of the President Elect" on it...

I am no McCain supporter... I was not a Bush supporter either, though I did vote for him... I approach each election cycle with an open mind and try to determine which candidate I believe will do the best job... who is right for the nation at that time... and who will "rule", if you will, in a manner I am comfortable with... As the parties have wandered and wavered and tried to be both conservative and liberal, left and right, or more appropriately, find the "center"... it has become less and less important which one wins. Bush's abandoning most conservative principals is proof of that... IF Obama truly tries to be centrist... seeks the counsel of a variety of voices and weighs the options before him carefully, he could well become a better president than Bush...

All that said, one reason I was dead-set against Obama... and trying to not be "negative" or "creepy"... I did/do not see either McCain or Obama surviving their term... so the race was really between Joe Biden, who has shown himself to be as far to the left as one can get and borderline psychotic to boot... or Sarah Palin, who had little in the way of true experience (though many believe her time as mayor and governor give her more actual experience than Obama)... a woman who we know little about... and despite the fact that we often prefer the evil we know vs. the evil we don't, in this case the one I know is so horrifying that the unknown darkness is a far more tempting place...

[sterling]

Sorry,

I was trying to learn how to quote and it blew up on me. Someday I will learn how to do that.

[hollies65]

I still don't know how to do it.

[Paulie Mississippi]

Sorry,

I was trying to learn how to quote and it blew up on me. Someday I will learn how to do that.

I thought it was an echo... like "deja vu all over again..."

[darlene]

I'm not surprised that Obama would model his presidency on that of Reagan, because the guy was extremely successful and everyone loved him. He also mentioned JFK as one of his models in the beginning. He wants to be the most illustrious president in history, and I'm wondering how he's going to try to do that.

He appointed at least four Clinton people and they're not young, with fresh new ideas, but part of Washington-as-usual, which puzzles me.

I wasn't in love with McCain--far from it--in the beginning I was trying to decide between McCain and Hillary Clinton, because I agreed with her on some things more than I did McCain. I couldn't exactly figure him out, and Hillary (and Bill) had shown themselves to have matured and gained much more experience. I never thought I would ever even consider voting for them when they were in the White House. I voted for McCain because of the experience issue and because of the fact that Sen. Obama's association issues would prevent him from gaining a security clearance, and that bothered me.

I'm willing to give him a chance because this country's in a mess. For that reason, I would like to see the "hope" be more than "hype."

Seeing his "seal" of the Office of President-elect still makes me wary of his propensity toward self-aggrandizement and I haven't heard anything substantive or different than, as Tony says, "the vague generalities" of the campaign trail.

I felt sorry for Nancy Reagan, as the insult belies his apology and statement of "respect" for her, and the fact that he got it wrong shows his failure to do his homework: it was Hillary Clinton who "channelled" Eleanor Roosevelt. Nancy consulted an astrologer after her husband's assassination attempt.

He's said he might not be able to do what he wanted to do in four years (a single term). Very canny to set up asking for re-election and making excuses why he won't deliver when he hasn't even gotten in yet. He seems extremely tentative, even with such experienced "big guns" for advisors, and all of the campaign bravado has disappeared. And I'm watching what Henry Rivera will do to free speech as concerns the airwaves.

There are more unanswered questions now for me than there were during the campaign. I still think his supporters will be disappointed when they see politics as usual and a very headstrong leader, supported by a very Partisan Rahm Emanuel. With the Democratic majority being able to push things through, Reid and Pelosi will have to take their lumps with nowhere to hide.

That being said, I hope my initial predictions are wrong and I see some humility and a willingness to put the country first as some great presidents have done.

--Darlene

--Darlene

[darlene]

Art said it very eloquently. The Wall Street mess can't be put on Bush's doorstep, at least not entirely. The Democrats were most responsible because if Bush has his powerful friends in oil (which he does), then Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are the Democrat's scandal. Barney Frank, to be exact, who misled the entire country, and Chris Dodd and Barack Obama who benefitted most from that scandal, (don't forget his connection to ACORN) and a scandal it is. The Democrats, afraid of being called racists, and anticipating the political/financial gain, encouraged, no, DEMANDED that banks loan uncreditworthy people all that money. Some Republicans can't be called blameless, but, truth be told, if you investigated the stories behind half the things politicians on BOTH sides are involved in, you would find that there aren't too many good apples in the bunch.

I'm deeply disappointed in some of the things Bush did (and didn't) do, but the economy is something he inherited.

The proof will be in the pudding by May, when then-President Obama will have put some of his economic measures in place. By next September he will have had the economic problem as long as President Bush has now had it, and we'll see what he does then.

--Darlene

[Daisy McLintock]

Regarding Obama, two things come to mind:

1st - He strikes me as being a strong person, but its gonna take quite a lot of personal integrity for him to fight up against any antisocials he runs into. He would be wise to learn about them and make sure his Advisors are not one of them. Also, he should not let their scribbled views overshadow his own, else he's in trouble at the get-go. Them antisocials l-o-v-e to hide behind others and get them to do their dirty work.

[hollies65]

I am intrigued by the "antisocials"you speak of.Could you elaborate? Who are they...and what are their traits?

[Daisy McLintock]

Here ya go Hollies. Who are they? I won't name everybody, but I know Hillary is one.

1. From Webster's New World Dictionary, definition #2: Harmful to society in general.

2. Narcissistic

3. Negative

4. Never wrong

5. Not trustworthy (backstabs too)

6. Doesn't like to help people, is basically unsupportive

7. Belittles

8. Loves to pass on bad news rather than good news, and alters or worsens it. (doesn't support the positive things in life)

9. No respect for other's possessions and properties. (steals and doesn't have a conscious about it)

10. Lies

11. Suppresses

12. From dictionary.com:

2. antagonistic, hostile, or unfriendly toward others; menacing; threatening: an antisocial act.

3. opposed or detrimental to social order or the principles on which society is constituted: antisocial behavior.

4. Psychiatry. of or pertaining to a pattern of behavior in which social norms and the rights of others are persistently violated.

In all fairness - we all have sporadic tendencies with the above but a true antisocial performs these routinely and daily, and is their modus operandi.

A true antisocial will never question whether he is one or not.

It can be tricky discovering if you're married to one, have a co-worker who is one, or have a friend or colleague who is one. The key is watching their actions, motives, and intentions very closely.

[LC]

2. antagonistic, hostile, or unfriendly toward others; menacing; threatening....

Gee, who does that sound like? Heh.

[hollies65]

Don't be so hard on yourself Larry old boy!

[LC]

Actually, I didn't mean me, H65. I just didn't want to name names....

[hollies65]

Sure you didn't. That why you inserted my catch phrase in your post. Super clever.

[chris hess]

peace guys!! i love ya both the same!! overall a pretty good topic,but,what do we agree on now on a positive note?..i'm no political genius of mind like many here who are very good on both sides on this site..but,what is your answer to MY question?..i'm listening as usual!..lots of love,chris

[hollies65]

Well...check out the youtube secton...there are three of the 90s best songs in the lastest thread[You may not agree though].

[Daisy McLintock]

Alright I will, but not tonight. I'm on the crappy machine and it doesn't play videos. When I next get on the better machine I'll take a peak, okay?

[Daisy McLintock]

OMG you were talking to Chris, right? LOL. I think I'll go to bed now for sure. You know I'd swear I was on a different thread. This website must do funky things to me.

[hollies65]

Heh.