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Obama To Hit The Ground Running


Paulie Mississippi

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Sorry, hollies65,

I stand corrected on the "fetus farm" issue. Truth be told, nobody LIKES abortion. It's not like women are walking into abortion clinics rubbing their hands together with delight, and cackling with glee at the prospects of having one.

If we repealed Roe vs Wade today, women would still get abortions. The rich ones would find a sympathetic doctor with a sterile clinic to perform it, and the poor ones would end up with someone unqualified, in a back room, with a coat hanger.

That's exactly what was going on in the 50's and 60's.

Anyway, I want you to know I'm not trying to beat you up over this stuff. i like you and I respect your views and your right to have them. I'm kind of sick of politics at the moment. I'm movin' on to more pleasant things.

e

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"...Karl Rove is an ATHEIST!...."

He learned from the absolute best, Lee Atwater, who invented modern dirty tricks in politics, and held no political beliefs whatsoever himself. What he did believe in was winning elections for whomever he working with/for.

Atwater's most famous TV ad when he was working for Bush Sr. was Dukakis in the tank wearing a helmet. This scene was supported by a sub-titled message that was outright lies - saying that he had voted against funding for DOD, wasn't supporting our troops through various other votes he had made, etc. Michael D. at the time was a Governor....who hadn't had the chance to even cast votes on any of this!

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RE: The abortion talk on this thread & others

From my perspective, this issue is tops, and is worth risking the wrath of friends to talk about.

To me, the issue is abortion law as it stands now. Is it right, or does it need to change. It's not an all or nothing fight (completely outlawing abortion vs. current law).

Today, in 2008, Roe Vs. Wade precludes states from passing laws protecting fetuses 6 months or younger. If we in Illinois want to pass a law protecting a 24 week old fetus from being aborted, we can't. Forget all legal talk - this is wrong, terribly wrong.

It's been a few years ago, but when I looked at the Supreme Court's basis for Roe Vs. Wade, and referenced the constitution, I saw no constitutional basis for Roe Vs. Wade. I didn't see their logic.

The truth is that if Roe Vs. Wade is overturned, the abortion issue will go back to the states. At the state level, we (the people) would have a more direct say in abortion legislation. That's consistant with democracy, and Jefferson's ideals.

I doubt if any state would completely outlaw abortion. But what would happen is the issue would be debated, and we citizens would have to face the issue, get educated on the issue and pass good/better law.

Currently, per Roe Vs. Wade, we can't protect a 24 week old fetus from being aborted! When the people of this country realize this, they'll see the injustice here, and act accordingly. I may believe life starts at conception, but I reckon most people in this country don't. Thus abortion won't be outlawed, IMHO. But the age range of the fetus allowed to be aborted will be reduced. We might allow abortions up to 2 months, 3 months, or whatever. But aborting 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 week old fetuses is an abomination and won't be supported by American citizens, IMHO.

What's vexing to me is that I know there are many pro-life people on this site. But none, other than Kathy before she left the site, has ever spoken out for their pro-life beliefs, even though some pro-choice members have spoken their mind on the issue (as they should).

Many of us see current abortion law, and what it supports as our country's greatest sin. And that's saying something as the U.S. has some whopper sins under its belt. But why don't we speak out?

I'd guess it's that we don't want to interrupt polite society, and friendships etc.

But that was how many in this country acted when they knew slavery was an evil and an abomination. They didn't speak up because they didn't want to create waves. And thus slavery existed longer than it had to. Many Germans (and others) didn't speak up when they saw the Hitler machine metastasizing. They put their heads in the sand and look what happened.

I guess to sum up, it's my opinion that most pro-choice people are good people. Many are exceptional people. And it's my belief that if they went to the hospital and viewed a 23 week old baby that was born early and alive, and then went and viewed a 23 week old baby being aborted, and realized that Roe Vs. Wade handcuffs us from protecting that 23 week old fetus, they'd realize that current abortion law is wrong, and needs to be worked on.

To me, this is the most important issue we face.

Thanks for listening. I too am tired of political posting, and will stop (at least for a while) going forward..

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I think I am already destined to burn in Hell for my indifference, at a younger age, to a couple of my girlfriends getting pregnant...where I could have talked them out of getting abortions...It's in the back of my mind, and stabs my conscience like a needle every now and then, the older I get...

I wish I wasn't so poor then...and now. Otherwise, the house would be crawling with more than just one little brat ready to create havoc on the world.

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1st, let me say that I "coined" the term "Fetus Farm" and expect my fair share of profits from Mr. Cartmill's merchandising efforts...

Yes, I do like to inject color and humor and shock into my conversations... and if you reflect on the line "Fetus Farm" it was part of a thought where I said I have no problem with Stem Cell research so long as they don't start to have Fetus Farms to create them...

As for the idea of who has acknowledged a stance on abortion, I know I've shared my thoughts on being Pro-Life, not for any other reason then my own selfishness... I was an adopted baby, born in 1959 to a 16 year old girl. Had abortion on demand been the accepted practice and "law of the land" I very well could have been snuffed out before drawing a breath... Of course a case can also be made that had my 15 or 16 year old mother kept her legs closed, I might have never been born too; and that is, as TC suggested, another reason for limiting abortion... it really has become too easy to use it as a form of retroactive birth control...

Another problem I have is not that I think it's right or wrong, but I think there becomes a double standard... if we are not talking about rape, then we are talking about consentual sex that created this fetus... why sould one party have the right to get rid of the unwanted circumstance of this joint action but not the other? If the boy in this equation does not want to be a daddy yet, well it's just too damned bad... you play, you pay. If the girl does not want to be a mommy yet... well, you just pay some hack of a doctor to eliminate your problem for you... even if the boy agrees to accept responsibility for his action and wants to become a daddy.

We talk about choice here... when you are talking about consentual sex, you have made your choice. You chose the horizontal mambo over chastity... If the result of that action is HIV, can you just decide you don't want it? If the result is Herpes or Syphilus or Crabs, it's just too damned bad. But let it be a child, and we call in the medical mafia to whack it...

I guess to be fair we'd have to allow the guys an "opt out" of the penalty for sexual achievement... if guys can have no say if the mother chooses to abort, the mother should have no say if she wants the guy to "be responsible" or not...

IMHO... laugh

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My take on abortion is reflected by that well-known philosopher, Whoopi Goldberg, who once said at some sort of a rally - "Men, if you're that opposed to giving women a choice about what to do with their bodies, then do something about it. Shoot off your d*cks! That'll prevent you from causing any abortions!"

Guys - this is (or should be) a woman's issue and their choice....unless we want to start carrying around the fetus for 9 months, undergo the body changes, etc.

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Dammit Paulie! Me and the babysitter were just about to get down to business...Then we read your post...Thanks for killing the mood! grumpy

Classic Cartmill! A great laugh to start the day.... Thanks, TC!

PS: Then again, I'm trying to eliminate that image from my head... Tony and some 18-year-old girl cuddled up in front of EC.com, getting all romantic as they read the latest political commentary from Paulie or A-Berries or Darlene.... As the Four Seasons once sang, "What a night!"

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Nothing else matters out here in California... BECAUSE THE GAYS DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR RELATIONSHIPS CALLED MARRAIGE!

SCREW THE WORLD FINANCIAL CRISIS, AMERICA ON THE VERGE OF DUMPING PARTS OF IT'S CONSTITUTION, AND THE NUCLEAR TERROR THREATS AROUND THE WORLD!

PEOPLE, GAY COUPLES HAVE TO SETTLE FOR "CIVIL UNIONS"! THAT'S ALMOST LIKE DESIGNATING THESE POOR SOULS "SLAVES", ISN'T IT?

I DON'T KNOW HOW ANY OF YOU COULD BE THINKING OR TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL THIS "NAZI" STYLE OF DEMOCRATIC PROPOSITION VOTING IS BANNED FOREVER!

SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!

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