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"Oh, and one more thing. I noticed that they're just now getting around to inducting the Ronettes into the Rock Hall."

Yeah, that was an absolute shocker to me, as I just assumed that the Ronettes and Crystals/Darlene Love, being Phil S's most prolific artists, were inducted into the Hall years ago. I just went thru the list of HoF members. While Phil's been in there for years (since '89), the only artists he produced to any degree that are in there are the Righteous Brothers and Ike & Tina (who didn't record that much with him), along with Gene Pitney (only 1 hit produced by PS) and Ben E. King (who's not in as a solo artist, but as a Drifter). Interesting.....a producer in, but few of his major hitmakers...

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If its a nice day and the windows in the car are down, and I'm listening to something universally regarded as 'uncool", I'll admit that when I come to a stop a a light and a car pulls up next to me, I'll turn it down. Isn't that sad? Show of hands, who else has done that?

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Right on Eric Carmen. Believe it or not I once came to fisticuffs with a guy in a bar during college because I was supporting and defending the talents of Burt Bacharach!! This guy was so enamored of the talents of RUSH and Foreigner that he was unable to see Burt Bacharach as anything other than a lightweight loser! He felt the same way about the Beach Boys. What a joke. I love Led Zeppellin, Cream, and Hendrix but this whole attitude towards pop has wrecked music as a whole. You have to be a crackhead gangster who cant sing a melody with bling coming out of your a-- to have any credibility today. Except for Bill OReilly ofcourse.

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raspathens- I can assure you that I was strictly in a defensive posture. Once the guy realized I liked Burt Bacharach, Brian Wilson, and the Bee Gees I think he thought I was easy prey to pick upon. I think a bartender got between us before any real damage was done. Which is good because I didnt really want to come into contact with the guys stringy and long black greasy matted hair that smelled of hashish and Budweiser.

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This thread is getting cool...I see a couple of sub-threads forming!

Who's in and out of the R&R HOF is one of them. Just as controversial as the Baseball HOF voting process.

Is it based on hits? Influence on others? Originality? Leading the charge on a new genre/niche of music like 'grunge',

'punk', 'southern California sound', etc? The theatrics in their stage show? Their songwriting? Creating awareness for a cause like hunger? Where are these criteria posted?

I still scratch my head over Percy Sledge's induction. He had one damn monster of a song, and only a couple of Top 40's Nice nice guy. But come on... confused

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Paul and Lee,

Unless you're just pulling legs, yeah, that whole Grandmaster Flash thread Bernie started was all about HOF controversies. It's up to 12 or so pages now... Here's the link (which you probably don't need becasuse you're probably just kidding):


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No never read it. Long and arduous. I don't think ANY act who only had 2 or 3 hits should be there. Like Chic. But we do need to consider every chart [valid chart]. The roots after all are all similar.

There are many deserving artists who have yet to be inducted. Who knows how names [potential] are introduced for consideration.

Thing is...'Rock' is in the doldrums and has been for about a decade...in terms of exposure to the masses. So the hall goes dormant in terms of inductees further down the line? Not a good idea.

We need to have a broader base for what constitutes Rock 'n' Roll. Top 40 radio did back when it all began...and did so for at least 10-12 years.

Hip Hop/Rap is definitely not Rock 'n' Roll. Neither was disco. I see the need for a line to be drawn...but not willy/nilly.

Some of the members of the Hall questioned in that thread deserve to be there...historically speaking. Make it too tight and the place will lose ALL of it's credibility and become an 'old boys' club. [or a good ol' boys club]

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Oh yeah---I forgot, R-Wine. Two pages of "ultimate fighting" between RaspberryWine and JohnO were excised from the "Chic/Grandmaster Flash..." thread because of sensitive content. But most of the gist of the argument --- which centered on Percy Sledge being deserving of HOF status or not --- remains.

The good news: a new book/DVD release called "RaspberryWine: The Best of His Bulletin Board Battles" contains the deleted material, along with many other enticements. Don't miss it. You'll find out how to order it on p. 15 of this thread:


(Besides, the whole Chic/Grandmaster thread is good reading..... Lots of worthy opinions in there, if you have a few minutes.)


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"But most of the gist of the argument --- which centered on Percy Sledge being deserving of HOF status or not --- remains."

For Lee's benefit:

Actually, I NEVER defended PS's induction into the R&R HOF, as I don't believe he should be in there. What I did vehemently defend him against was several posts declaring him a "one hit wonder" who had never done anything else in his career....with Billboard chart data, and info from his web site (which I had just looked up) as proof. Period.

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The thing is...most rock 'n roll folks ALSO sang ballads. It ain't just bawls-to-the-wall numbers that elected many of the inductees.

And...again...we have to consider the roots and routes.

R&B evolved into R&R. In fact some of the late 40s/early 50s R&B RAWKS a whole lot harder than some of what we accept as vintage Rock 'n' Roll.

Just because the electric guitar replaced the saxophone in many of the 'lead' breaks doesn't mean diddly...Bo.

Meanwhile...I'd vote for BJ Thomas...if asked,

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Forgive me for sounding cynical. It's refreshing to me to read all these post, positive or negative, concerning music artists past and present. It's nice to see that people actually "care" about music in general! From what I see in this day & age being a professional musician, playing the night clubs,,, I see that this younger set of people {21 to about 25} could care less about music, or listening to music or supporing music in the clubs. They'd rather watch the "game" on the big screen!! I'm glad I'm not a young kid getting started in music right now. It would be so uninspiring!! I know this really has nothing to do with this thread but I that's what I was thinking about while I was reading all these posts here.

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Oooooh, Let's all bow in reverence to the rock "intelligentsia". You know, the people who tell you if something's "cool" or not. Right now, they're telling you that Fergie and Snoop Dog are what you should be listening to. They've been so right-on with all their wisdom, that radio is just about dead and buried. I've got NPR, a couple classical stations, a couple of country stations, and a few stations that play everything from the 80's to the present, but nothing I ever really want to hear in my car. I'd say 90% of the time I'm listening to NPR or one of the classical stations. Once in a while I turn my car radio to "scan" and it catches a hip-hop station as it runs through the dial. I'm always really inspired by what I hear. Brainless filth that sounds like I've got three stations playing at once. I imagine this might sound good if I was really high on crack and methadone and angel dust. Or not. But you can bet we're gonna see Fergie undressed on the cover of Rolling Stone really, really soon. Then these same jerks are gonna tell you Billy Joel is a "guilty pleasure." Uh, sure, and Patti Smith belongs in the Rock Hall, too! Right next to Chic! ec

Fergie and Snoop Dog, eh? These rock "intelligentsia" can say what they want - I don't allow that kind of crap in my house, or in my van. My kids wanna listen to it then they can put on headphones.

Me gots ten presets on my van radio:

(my half)

1. Classic rock

2. Oldies

3. "Cool favorites" (their description - classic rock, some acoustic rock, a good share of Buffett, album cuts)

4. Oldies

5. 60's, 70's, 80's

(wife's half)

6, 7, and 8. Soft rock

9 and 10. Country

I do sometimes catch the classical station, especially when I know there's a good organ recital going on. laugh


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I've always loved B. J. Thomas and was never embarrassed to admit it! I just downloaded a few BJ Thomas tunes on the new MP3 player that I got for Christmas!!!

He was at a small venue (in Bensalem, PA) a few miles from my house last July (or maybe the July before) with Billie Joe Royal, I tried but couldn't get there for some reason on another!

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Eric and ANYONE with half a working ear are right on...B.J.THOMAS is an INCREDIBLE vocal artist with a fairly long list of hit records spanning different formats and styles for the past 30 years. OK...so call me "guilty" of liking and admiring this very talented and unique sounding man.......and like EC, in person, a very warm , likable and "real" human being.


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