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Concerning Artful Dodger material - we could really use your help!


AJ

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Okay, it appears that either the person who started Artful Dodger Records (or someone close to them) has made their way to our site. This company sold a disc called "Jester" in 1999 which contained all of "Rave On" as well as a couple songs from the band's three Columbia releases. Recently, this disc has popped up again at EBAY (who pulled it as an pirated item after being notified about it) both separately and as part of an unauthorized two disc ANTHOLOGY. Plus I'm sure that someone will probably pirate the material in the YOUTUBE videos.

I know that many of you are avid collectors of various artists scanning EBAY (and the like) for rare material. I ask that if you stumble over any Artful Dodger CD's offered on an online auction except for the official re-issues of "Honor Among Thieves" (1991/1997 Columbia/SONY Pendulum) or the debut (1997 Sony Pendulum) please notify us at the site or even the auction house directly(this is usually an anonymous process). We would greatly appreciate any help, especially since some authorized licensing of material is being kicked around!

Thanks for your support!

AJ

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.....i found the jester cd a few years ago at a flea market here in nyc.......i called the contact # on the jacket, and had one of the strangest conversations i've ever had with the guy on the other end of the phone.........the word delusional comes to mind........i know of a few others who've had similar experiences with this guy.........i'm pretty sure one friend of mine was forced to relocate and assume another identity from his persistant and unwanted overatures..........

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I bought a copy of the two disk ANTHOLOGY on Ebay several years ago, but I can't remember who the seller was.

Not to play devil's advocate here, but I wouldn't have considered buying that unauthorized release, had "Rave On" (or even "Babes") been readily available on CD. I got a copy of "Rave On" on CD that they were selling at their shows a couple of years ago, and I'm pretty certain it was burned from vinyl. Ditto for my copy of "Babes On Broadway" CD, which a buddy of mine burned from a mint vinyl copy.

Additionally, it appears that Sony didn't press too many copies of their re-issues of either "AD" and "Honor", especially the former. Whenever a CD copy of their debut shows up on Ebay or at Vintage Vinyl or other dealers, it goes for very large bucks.

While it sounds like someone's finally doing something about possibly reissuing their material....in the meantime, I suspect AD fans who are looking for copies of their albums on CD may continue to buy the unauthorized releases.

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On the Artful Dodger re-issues, not many did get manufactured because sales goals weren't met. A proposed label has to see a profit to go through the process of obtaining rights, re-mastering, and merchandising.

I understand that buying a bootleg is tempting, but when it's of unlicensed already released material and not some live show that was taped, that goes too far in my book. Especially suggesting it's sale at the band's web site, or saying it was sanctioned by the records labels when that's not the case. Imagine me offering Eric Carmen's debut here on CD for $5 bucks.... that would be insane??? improper??(Right...)

All I'm really asking is that if you see it up at the auctions let us or the auction house know it's not official. EBAY already decided it's not and pulled it. But community spotters reporting it is usualy how they catch it.

thanks

AJ

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AJ - Understood. Your posting info like this is very helpful....when, for example, I bought ANTHOLOGY several years ago, I had no clue it was unauthorized.

On the Yahoo Flamin' Groovies board, there's been tons of controversy over that band's many releases on the Australian AIM label. For the longest time, "Shake Some Action" was available on CD only thru that label, which also released several other legit-appearing CDs of new recordings in "One Night" and "Step Up"...which board members found out, way too late, were never authorized by the band members....nor are they getting one dime from the recordings. (The label was and is owned by a Groovies' former manager who disappeared years ago with all of their money while the band was touring Europe, leaving them high & dry, and thousands of miles from home.) Board members have been asked not to buy any AIM releases, which is like torture to the real fans, as it deprives them of a lot of material not available elsewhere.

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FYI - When AD played their reunion show on new years eve '05 as part of the legendary concert club "The Agora"'s 40th anniversary, everyone in attendance received a "Rave On" CD with 9 bonus tracks - great live versions of many AD classics recorded at Agora shows in the band's '70's heyday. That very rare CD may show up on Ebay as well, but I wouldn't consider it to be a bootleg.

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Al K,

That 40th Anniversary "Rave On" disc isn't a bootleg, Agora Records owns the rights to the "Rave On" material and also the live '76 material which was recorded at the Agora. The band permitted the live material to be put on the disc. The disc was intended to be a souvenir to all those who came out for the NYE show. The Agora never intended to have people sell the disc - it was a gift. Mr. LaConti was really happy that Artful Dodger got back together and did the show on very short notice (less than 3 months of weekend practices to prepare for it). One disc was handed to each person, but some people snuck a few extras. There was post show demand for the disc and the Agora made the disc available as a freebie if you ordered a t-shirt from the show. That disc has turned up on EBAY, and people paid quite a bit more than the twenty odd dollars the Agora wanted for the t-shirt/disc package (sometimes I don't get people and EBAY - I see people overpay for software and other items on EBAY constantly).

Hopefully those that have the disc will treasure it and not sell it - and most importantly, make copies and sell it!

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.....i found the jester cd a few years ago at a flea market here in nyc.......i called the contact # on the jacket, and had one of the strangest conversations i've ever had with the guy on the other end of the phone.........the word delusional comes to mind........i know of a few others who've had similar experiences with this guy.........i'm pretty sure one friend of mine was forced to relocate and assume another identity from his persistant and unwanted overatures..........

YIKES!!!! Thanks for the tip!

BTW - Artful Dodger is working on booking some shows in Virginia (details at the site). One possibility has been the Jaxx (mentioned at the Jaxx's site but no date set yet). Hopefully that's a closer trip than the "Mistake By The Lake" (as you put it) from your home base!

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My mistake...I shouldn't have stated that they were selling the "Rave On" CD at their shows...what I have is a copy of the one that was given out (also bought that on Ebay for a pretty penny)......

You should have been a little slower to the draw to get it. I figured people would want it, even though the audio quality of the "Rave On" material is so-so (an LP conversion). There was no time for them to make the disc proper on such short notice. I figured people out there would want to profit on this stuff (when you see the Artful Dodger debut sell for over $100 on CD - that's just crazy!)

That's why I asked the Agora if they could do something - I would rather see them get the money because they'll take care of the band (i.e. - more shows). I'm glad they did it!

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"I figured people out there would want to profit on this stuff (when you see the Artful Dodger debut sell for over $100 on CD - that's just crazy!)"

I paid a lot closer to the $20 asking price for the CD/t-shirt than what the debut CD costs ($100)....for what it's worth...and I posted above that it sounded like a burn from vinyl (and not particularly mint-sounding vinyl, either!)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I understand that buying a bootleg is tempting, but when it's of unlicensed already released material and not some live show that was taped, that goes too far in my book. Especially suggesting it's sale at the band's web site, or saying it was sanctioned by the records labels when that's not the case. Imagine me offering Eric Carmen's debut here on CD for $5 bucks.... that would be insane??? improper??(Right...)

AJ

the only thing i can say in defense of anyone in need of hearing the music is this....

avoid buying bootlegs and do your best to get in contact w/ fans/friends who have the ability to burn the vinyl onto CD and just reimburse them for the postage...

if the artist is unable to get their material released on CD one can not fault the fans on trying to share it on the new format, especially if it's obscure...

as long as no one's making $$ off of it, there is nothing wrong with the practice... unless, of course, the artist does not want that material reissued (which is a sticky issue, because once it's been officially released--say, as a vinyl album or single back in the '60s or '70s--it's fair game to be heard by the masses)...

I'm sure Eric is not losing sleep over the fact that the Cyrus Erie & Quick material is not getting enormous amounts of requests by the fans...

from my side, I think it deserves a place in the reissue world... but for now we have to settle on friends to burn it or email it...

And for the Artful Dodger freaks, a good quality burn of the vinyl onto CD will suffice & might actually sound better than a 2007 remaster from the source tapes, depending on who does the job & the quality of the masters... (it's happened w/ Alice Cooper)

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Pierson,

I agree with the vinyl to CD convert - especially when a person already owns a copy of the album - basically your making an archive (or backup) which is legit. You're also right about some of the reissues too - especially some remastering jobs. Unfortunately, what you said about copying for someone even though no money is made is no longer a defense concerning the copyright laws - Napster saw to that years ago - and the legislators rewrote the law to state that copying with monetary benefit is still subject to fines and prison.

I think most people will try to obtain material legally - especially people who grew up buying LPs and tapes (funny that the record companies don't focus more on the music we like).

Hopefully the material will get reissued and this whole issue will die.

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Hopefully the material will get reissued and this whole issue will die.

well, a lot of it has & will be... but don't expect ALL of it to be....

sadly, i think most people will die before the issue does, and some of the greatest stuff will remain unheard... or at least, very hard to get...

the first one that comes to my mind is Canada's Creamcheeze Goodtime Band...

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BTW - I meant that to say "without monetary gain" on that previous post - I missed the edit time-window.

Pierson,

You're right on that last one. To be honest, since I've learned how to do the vinyl to CD conversions years ago, my CD purchases have stopped except for the trips through the dollar bin at The Exchange stores. I've actually started buying used vinyl again at 25 cents each. Nothing new coming out sparks my interest (Guess I'm getting old). My poor kids, while others sing the current flavor, mine sing Cheap Trick "Surrender", Artful Dodger and the Raspberries (as well as other "classic" rock.

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