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Worst Rock & Roll Hall of Fame class ever?


Cozmik

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I can justify the last three. I can by NO MEANS justify Madonna. She is definitely NOT rock and roll. Maybe that crap they pass off as pop these days, but sure as hell not rock and roll. Leonard Cohen, I'll admit, I don't know much about, though I've merely heard OF him.

Now - speaking of the Rock Hall, how about Raspberries getting their due, plus Eric as a solo artist?!

BMP

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Early - IMO, the entire city of Detroit has been shafted by the R&RHOF, the Motown label excluded....which some don't consider to be rock & roll anyway....no Kiss, Alice Cooper, Mitch Ryder, the MC5, Stooges, Scott Morgan, Nugent, etc. (although Seger, IMO, not one of the Motor City's R&R heavies, did get in...).

As far as the worst class ever? '08 isn't a strong one, but this is, of course, all a matter of personal opinion and taste. IMO, the DC5 should have been in already for at least the past decade....and, Ventures aside, I don't really care about the others.

That said, the class of '05, with 3 of its 5 inductees being soul/blues (O'Jays, Percy Sledge, Buddy Guy), and the other two - U2 and the Pretenders - not very strong, IMO. Ditto the class of '02 - while I was heavily rooting for the Ramones and Gene Pitney, I could care less about the Talking Heads, Isaac Hayes, Brenda Lee or Tom Petty.

Likewise the class of '00 - Clapton as a solo artiste, the Lovin' Spoonful, Moonglows, Earth Wind & Fire, Bonnie Raitt, and James Taylor - not much rock & roll there, either...

I think any given year's class is gonna vary from very strong to very weak, depending on who's looking at it.

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If Madonna is in...why isn't Cher? Madonna writes her own songs like Elvis wrote his early songs. She plays like 4 chords...Yeah she is an Icon but like I said , so is Cher. Cohen IS NOT rock. period. Yeah,yeah...he wrote 'Suzanne' and 'Hallelujah' ...Oh,oh and 'I'm Your Man'. Yeah...so what ...R&R HOF for that? DC5 rocked more in the 2 & half mins of 'Anyway You Want It' that Cohen did in his life.

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I was at the Hall last Friday and saw that Buffalo Springfield was in. Er, what's that about? Isn't that kind of like inducting the Quarrymen because they evolved into the Beatles?

I have nothing against Buffalo Springfield. But when compared to the artists who have been left out, I really have a hard time understanding this.

And as for this year's nominees...if you consider the Hall of Fame to be rewarding creativity or innovation, then Leonard Cohen (for his lyrics) and Madonna (for the brilliant image makeovers) deserve recognition. I have a harder time justifying Mellencamp (competent and popular, but innovative?), Dave Clark (not-so-latter day Beatles) and Ventures (various reasons, but most of all I just don't find them very interesting).

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Pierre - Agree 100% about Buffalo Springfield, who were a great band, and whom I personally love, but....take away Young's, Stills',Furay's, and Mussina's post-BS careers, and no, they wouldn't even be considered for the HoF. Same for the Yardbirds, whom I also love, but who wouldn't get a second glance from the voters if not for their guitar players and their post-Yardbirds activities.

However, don't agree with your assessments of The Ventures or DC5.

If ANY R&R instrumental groups are ever inducted, The Ventures have to be in the forefront, excluding maybe Booker T & The MGs, who were inducted in 1992. The likes of Duane Eddy are already in there, so why not The Ventures? Not very interesting? Hell, I don't find Madonna, The Police, Pink Floyd, U2, The Eagles, or any other number of huge acts remotely interesting, but I won't argue the fact that they deserve to be in the R&R HoF!

Re: The Dave Clark Five - They had about 17-18 Top 40 hits in this country from '64-'67, along with more Ed Sullivan appearances than The Beatles. Frankly, as a singles band during those 3-4 years, their only peers were The Beatles, Beach Boys and Supremes. Additionally, Clark was one of the all-time greatest producers....even though, sadly, his time behind the board was restricted to his own band. Equally sad, the main reason the DC5's been ignored for so long is that Clark has been sitting and sitting on their master recordings, refusing to release them on CD. If and when they ever are released, IMO, the entire world will sit up and wonder aloud -"What took so long for this great band to be inducted?" Referring to them as Beatles wannabes or "not-so-latter day Beatles" indicates to me that, at the very least, a lot of people have forgotten them and their music!

(NOTE: Also, the fact remains that they were voted in last year, only to be overruled by Jan Wenner, in favor of that great "rock & roll" artist, Grandmaster Flash(!!!).....while DC5 lead singer Mike Smith languished in a hospital as a quadraplegic, with nobody certain that he was even going to live to ever see their induction. Then, in the meantime, sax player Denny Payton died in Dec. 2006....Yeah, this is extraneous BS, but it was nonetheless, pretty aggravating!)

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Well, I wasn't trying to be taken too seriously with my previous post (other than the Buffalo Springfield part - I really believe that they don't belong), but I might as well continue...knowing full well that opinions here are passionately held...

Leonard Cohen's lyrics are entirely different from Dylan's. In their prime, they were both far removed from the usual moon-June stuff that surrounded them. I found Dylan to be more of an absurdist who took a playful approach to language (just look at his liner notes), while Cohen was coming from a more poetic (not just rhyming, as Dylan often did) perspective.

Madonna deserves to be in the Hall of Fame just as much as Elvis Presley. Hugely popular, merging previously disparate styles of music, iconic, some decent tunes and some forgettable ones, loathed by parents..."that's rock and roll."

My appreciation of the Dave Clark 5 is also limited by the lack of available DC5 music - good point. But were they "leading the way" with each new release? My *personal* opinion is that they were a good band that had the classic Beatles/Merseybeat sound down pat...and they were rewarded for it in the mid-60s with a ton of hit records. Does that equate to Hall of Fame? IMHO, more so than The Pretenders...but not a slam dunk either.

As for the Ventures - I will admit to a bias against instrumental bands (and bands that perpetually release 5 albums a year). And no, I don't find them very interesting compared to oh, let's see, pretty much every prominent Brazilian artist of the Tropicalia movement (none of whom have a hope of hell of getting in the Hall of Fame, but took rock in a brilliant new direction in the 1960s and beyond). Those guys (just to name a few: Jorge Ben, Caetano Veloso, Gilberto Gil, Os Mutantes, etc., etc.) combined brilliant music AND rhythm AND lyrics AND were often exiled/imprisoned for their music.

OK, I'm done muckraking for now. Nothing personal, everybody...and remember, I'd love to see the Raspberries in the Hall just as much as you would.

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Pierre...Madonna deserves to be in the R&R HOF as Much as Elvis??? Elvis Presley was a founding father of Rock and Roll...with a magnificent WIDELY copied style and voice. He had tons of great records.All of his Sun recordings are essential to the history and development of rock and roll and his sides prior to his army induction are loaded with classics. He recorded some weak soundtrack stuff and towards his death...but his music is timeless and the man is 100% Rock. Madonna's music will not be remembered in 50 years.Cher is a better comparison...and I'd take Cher over Madonna ...everyday of the week.

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I think we all know that the Rock Hall of Fame is not only for 'rock' music. It encompasses many styles and influences that have either led to, formed, or extended 'rock' music. This is why you have everyone from Percy Sledge to Leonard Cohen to Led Zeppelin within the Hall.

As the Hall says on it's website, criteria includes influence and significance...

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Pierre...Madonna deserves to be in the R&R HOF as Much as Elvis??? Elvis Presley was a founding father of Rock and Roll...with a magnificent WIDELY copied style and voice. He had tons of great records.All of his Sun recordings are essential to the history and development of rock and roll and his sides prior to his army induction are loaded with classics. He recorded some weak soundtrack stuff and towards his death...but his music is timeless and the man is 100% Rock. Madonna's music will not be remembered in 50 years.Cher is a better comparison...and I'd take Cher over Madonna ...everyday of the week.

Madonna and Elvis are more alike than people think. And it's not just their forays into film. They both represent the classic blend of the sacred and the profane. Madonna's struggle with her Catholicism inspired some of her best work (Like a Prayer), while Elvis's spiritual influences need not be repeated here.

But Madonna did something that Elvis could never do: she took control of her career and had great success in both the business and musical aspects. Elvis did what Colonel Tom told him to...Madonna took over the company. And was one of the first (if not the first) women to do that. Without Madonna, no Maverick Records, no Grrrrrl power, no Avril Lavigne, no Alanis Morisette, even no Spice Girls (I didn't say these were all good things, but she was and somehow continues to be influential!). And "builders" can be in the Hall of Fame just as much as musicians. It is a rare person indeed who can succeed at both sides of the music business.

The woman is 100% rock (in the broad meaning of the word) - just from a different time and place than Elvis.

Cher is also a great actress and has made some, er, records. But is she influential as a musician or recording artist? No. She is an entertainer, nothing more. Which is what some people have said about Elvis, by the way. But I won't go there.

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