Live On Sunset Strip!

[HT from Mo]

TOMMY TUNES said:

All this arguing.

All this pot stirring.

And I'm nowhere to be found.

I feel so left out.

People are going to get the wrong impression and believe I've matured or something.

I just don't know what to do.

TT, maybe you're just in a "pot-stirring" slump. I'm sure you'll be back to your routine pot-stirring soon. Heeheehee! A couple of other board members might be filling in for you!

HT

[hollies65]

Don't look at me...I'm the voice of truth and reason!

[Muzza]

Hey Tommy... don't panic... I'll give ya some moral support next Saturday!!!

Muzza

[Brian Mac]

The Release of this record was an enormous Fiasco. For all the help they got from Ryko, the boys could have put this out themselves and kept all the royalties. The record company is not promoting the record and did not get it into retail stores. Tell me one thing they did right? Has anybody noticed that Amazon is now reporting that the Deluxe version ships in 4 to 7 weeks!!! Yes fans, the worlds largest retailer can't get their hands on a record that came out less than a week ago. I rest my case.

As far as the Limited Edition, I have to agree with Trindy. You can't convince me there is any "tweaking" going on at this late date. This thing has long since been manufactured. I don't know what the hold up is, but it's not that. Kind of reminds me of all the times I bought tickets to the live shows when they went on sale, and then had to re-buy them again when VIP seats were announced later. The skeptic in me kind of wonders if maybe this delay is all about 300 extra sales.

Maybe I'm just pissed off that it's Saturday Night and I still haven't got the new album to listen to. I've been waiting for the mailman to come every day like a little kid and felt for sure this was the day...NOT.

[Brian Mac]

I'd also like to point out that if this CD had been released by Capital Records, it would have been in EVERY store. Best Buy, Circuit City, Barnes and Noble, all of them. I still see Eric's first solo album all the time, as well as the Raspberries Capital releases. Hell, they still have a section in most CD outlets. The re-union made big news EVERYWHERE they played. There IS interest in new music from this legendary band. There IS a market for their work. Make no mistake about this, Ryko didn't get it into stores because either they just don't have the juice OR (and I hope this is not the case) they didn't even try.

[Kirk]

I guess I'm just too thankful and appreciative that this got done at all to be upset. Before the internet made this pinpoint information available, what did we do when a 'new release' was announced? Walked (ran!) to the local record store and hope that it was in stock. If they didn't have it, you called or checked back until it was in. Delays happen. I guess I'm still in that mode.

The band made this recording as a legacy for the fans as much as themselves. I think commercial expectations are probably pretty modest, and to accuse anybody involved of ulterior motives using 'delays' is off base.

Hopefully, stuff like this won't discourage the band from doing other things in the future. My 2 cents.

Kirk.

[frankenberrie]

I don't have a dog in the fight, still haven't found the cd in any store, and still hope there will be a separate DVD only package that the band can make some more money on. I feel bad for those that spent the money so far in advance tho, to get told sorry, just buy another copy, not all of us can afford it, times are tough here in the real world. I've already made my complaints known in past about the limited release thing, especially since the edition is now expanded indefinitely, without autographs or a corresponding price drop. I saw offers of $500 in advance, wonder if there is any upside at this point to the multiple set buyers. I realize this is a once in a lifetime shot, etc, but you know there comes a point where enough is enough already. This is a tiny niche audience, and I've seen several of the longtime supporters getting very turned off by this whole marketing & delay. The CD is impossible to find in most stores as is, even online is tough. perhaps if the band had tried to make a bigger splash with the release like announcing some live dates & instores, there might have been more retailer support. Can't blame all the marketing on the label, that's why bands have PR firms & agents. Oh well, just my 2 cents. Carry on.

[Tony Cartmill]

Maybe if there was some new material, I would have my panties all in a bunch over the delay. But these songs are over 30 years old and I've heard several different versions of most over the years. Hopefully, I will finally hear a difinitive live CD, but if it's a week or two delayed, I won't get all Trindy-tized.

Now, If my wife says she's a few weeks late...then we have something to be concerned about.

[Argee]

Its still in stock on I-TUNES.

The delivery means of music has changed and there is no looking back. Movies are next. I downloaded the movie we watched last night off X-BOX Live. It only took me 15 minutes to do so and it was high def and 5.1 sound.

Times have changed people.

[hollies65]

The music business has changed forever...the future IS the I-Tunes of the world.Sure If the Raspberries has been on say... the Sony BMG lable there would be plenty of records in stores...it takes two to dance though.The one thing that Brian stated that is troubling is the 4-7 week thing.That seems to say someone did not manufacture enough CDs...although I find that hard to believe.

[Don_Krider]

It's the Deluxe Edition (21 songs on two CDs with the 5-song bonus DVD) that Amazon now says it can fill orders for in 4 to 7 weeks, but the Standard Edition (13 songs on one CD without a DVD) says "in stock" at Amazon.

That causes me to suspect that retailers and/or Rykodisc expected the Standard Edition to be the better seller, and were surprised at the demand for the more expensive Deluxe Edition. Just a thought (no data to back up my opinion).

That, plus all the reviews are concentrating on the Deluxe Edition (raving about the CDs and the DVD), which probably is pushing the sales of that version.

Don Krider

[hollies65]

Good point.

[Trindy]

OK, obviously more has to be said here...or WILL be said, I don't care who wants to read it or not.

To those wondering how I handle a parking ticket: I don't. I don't drive. Not everyone does. You'd be amazed at how we get by. And again, I repeat: Unless you want to be treated to a private, and highly unsavory, description of how I have handled some of the "really bad" stuff in life, don't push me, OK? Let me just say that part of the way I was able to get through it was by listening to my Raspberries on my CD player. And leave it at that.

I do feel sorry for those in New Zealand who will have to wait even longer and pay even more for any copy of this project, but I am not in New Zealand. I am in Cleveland. Consider what it means to be a loyal fan from the band's hometown and still be told "wait, be patient."

Darlene, Barnes & Noble is either lying to you or speaking to you from a local perspective, because that is where I knuckled under and got my "deluxe"copy yesterday, at Richmond Town Center. I had to go there, you see, because the FYE in Tower City didn't have it. Yes, right in the middle of the Raspberries' hometown and they don't even have a single copy of this. Even the B&N had no Raspberries card in the rack--I had to look in the generic "R" section, where I found a copy of the regular CD and the deluxe edition (one each). Is it terrific? Yes. And I guess it will have to do until I get the limited edition. But it doesn't make up for not having it yet.

Thanks for the technical clarifications, Al, but did no one see those posing an issue before now, in terms of whether the "special edition"would be able to come out before or at the same time as the others? It seems like a lack of foresight to me. The wise thing to do would have been to realize that it would take longer to make a longer DVD of the same quality as the shorter one, especially with all the "extras" added, and then set expectations accordingly. Or do the longer one first, then the shorter one.

I believe I have expressed myself in a way that deserves more than a dismissal as a "hissyfit and tantrum," and appreciate that Bernie backs those who feel the way I do. (For the record: it is not the Internet that is "making me brave." I would gladly say these things to anyone's face as well as here.)

No, this won't be a "dead horse" until everyone gets what they ordered. The continued pouring on of sunshine and lemonade (Kool-Aid?) by those who continue to attempt to counter my statements by slathering on their infinite gratitude that the band even decided to reunite after all these years, much less do a live album, MUCH LESS do a special edition chockful of goodies, is also getting really, really old. Those of you who continue to take this line seem to have forgotten something: that those of us who ordered the limited edition paid for something that we haven't gotten yet. While the "fan" in us is grateful to even have had the opportunity to order it, or to pay for anything remotely resembling it, the "consumer" part of us is in full rebellion. I know that sounds like a cold way to define part of our relationship with this band, but it's true. Even Eric will say...there's a reason it's called "the music BUSINESS." And it's because he and the band don't play for free, and they don't give away their recordings free (nor should they). For as long as they continue to charge money for what they do, as they rightly should, the relationship between themselves and their fans will always have a business component. Like it or not. And the relationship of a business to its "customers" is never one in which the business does whatever it wants and the customers express extreme gratitude for whatever decisions it makes. Businesses either satisfy their customers or they cease to exist. Or they stop charging for their services. Period. I don't think the boys want to do that. Do you?

It's not like they said they might give us something for free and then didn't come across. They asked for our money in advance, and gladly we gave it...for something we don't have yet. I understand why they had to collect upfront—it was the only safe way to avoid being soaked for expensive merchandise they might not sell—but that being done, from a business standpoint, they had an obligation to deliver to us BEFORE they did to those who had not yet shelled out money for anything. And that didn't happen.

"Underpromise and overdeliver" is the key to successful marketing. This overpromising (repeated announcements that yet more "goodies" are being added to the limited edition) and underdelivering (pushing back the anticipated mailing date again and again and again) is bad marketing and bad business. By the time this set DOES get released, expectations for it will be so stratospheric they may be impossible to match! (I sure hope not!)

The band is lucky we fans are so loyal, because only fans as loyal as we are would put up with this treatment even to the extent that we are, much less fall all over ourselves making light of the situation and claiming not to be bothered by it, like some of you are. That being said, it's not something that it's fair to take advantage of. Entities who have fans--bands, actors, athletes, you name it--who are wise know that it pays to treat your best, most dedicated fans like gold. They may not be where your volume sales lie, but they are the ones who will spread your gospel to everyone else. They are the ones who stood by you even when no one else wanted to look at you. You may not even see them, but they're there and they make a difference and they make it easier to let the world know how good you are. Is it too much to ask for that when you've been as dedicated as we are, you get treated a little better than the average fan walking into a record store?

As it is, it doesn't look as if that average fan is being served too well either. And of those of us who have yet to receive our limited editions, it looks as if I am one of the lucky ones, because at least I was able to get to a store that stocked a copy of the deluxe version. Those who ordered a limited edition as I did, and who didn't also order a deluxe edition that has already shipped from an online store, and who now can't find a copy in their local bricks-and-mortar stores, are SOL.

That isn't good. And I see nothing hissyfitting or tantrum-like about saying so. I'm not sure what the solution is, but right now I'm not impressed with Ryko's distribution techniques.

[hollies65]

What is FYE?? Am I so old I don't know this record store?

[marlene]

Trindy said:

The continued pouring on of sunshine and lemonade (Kool-Aid?) by those who continue to attempt to counter my statements by slathering on their infinite gratitude that the band even decided to reunite after all these years, much less do a live album, MUCH LESS do a special edition chockful of goodies, is also getting really, really old. Those of you who continue to take this line seem to have forgotten something: that those of us who ordered the limited edition paid for something that we haven't gotten yet.

I am not pouring out sunshine or lemonade TO or FOR YOU or anyone else, Trindy. I just happen to be thrilled to know I'm going to get something I know will be amazing !! And I believe I have EVERY right to say so...don't you ? AND...the truth is, even if I'd known early on the LE edition would take longer, I would have STILL done what I DID DO and order it (two, to be exact). I didn't forget ANYTHING...it just isn't such a big deal to me to wait...so, let me have my opinion, too, without ridiculing ME ! FAIR ENOUGH ??

[MJ]

FYE at least in Florida was taken over from the old Camelot music chains. You're not that old - you just don't have your reading glasses on lmao.

[Argee]

The five video performances from the DVD are up on I-TUNES for download. 1.99 each

[hollies65]

I almost went to work for Camelot in the late 70s.

[Chew Foil]

Trindy, you are right. Someone should apologize for the way the Raspberries most devoted fans have been treated. If the person in charge of this worked for my company, they would be fired. You dont take money up front and then not deliver by the release date. And this is still America. You have the right to say whatever you want. I go to the polls every November to fight for these rights. Power to the People,baby!

[LC]

Dianed, Marlene, and others, right on! You have the right attitude, IMHO. And I find all of those "toeing the line" and "drinking the Kool-Aid" comments to be petty and offensive.

I'll reiterate that sure, complainers have every right to complain, and I'm certain that "Raspberries Inc." is listening, wishing there was no delay, and wishing they could wave a magic wand to get that baby into your/our hands. But they can't. They do know, however, that people in the audience will react differently (and certainly, the way people react to adversity or disappointment says a lot about them...).

So heck, if I were "Raspberries Inc.," I would cancel the shipment and happily offer a full refund to all who ordered the Limited Edition and are furious that it hasn't been delivered. I'd even tack on a 7 months of interest, just to appease and satisfy. I bet only a few would opt for such an offer.

PS: Somebody implied that the LE-edition delay was the record company's and/or band's manipulative way to squeeze more money out of fans. Man, that's cynical. It's true that despite all the love and good feelings between band and fan base, it's still a business, BUT... I think we can safely say that the delay has been a matter of things just not going as planned. How many unforeseen circumstances arose that delayed the project in terms of editing/mastering/production? Plenty we know about, and no doubt plenty we don't know about.

[Brian Mac]

I can't speak for him, but I really don't think Eric's expectations for this project were "modest." I don't recall him ever thinking in those terms. So I suspect he is bitterly disappointed by the lack of support Sunset is receiving. I imagine he was looking forward to coming up here and reading accolades from his devoted fan base about this new work, not diatribes on how disappointed many of us are that we couldn't even buy the damn thing.

[hollies65]

The glowing reviews outnumber the distribution complaints...but point taken.

[LC]

Brian Mac said:

I can't speak for him, but I really don't think Eric's expectations for this project were "modest." I don't recall him ever thinking in those terms. So I suspect he is bitterly disappointed by the lack of support Sunset is receiving. I imagine he was looking forward to coming up here and reading accolades from his devoted fan base about this new work, not diatribes on how disappointed many of us are that we couldn't even buy the damn thing.

Nor should you speak for Eric. He posts quite frequently here himself. As for fans' reactions, read the board. There are plenty of raves for Live on Sunset Strip. To speculate that he or anyone is disappointed in fan (or media) reaction is kind of a groundless exercise and a reach. (Or maybe an attempt to get a reaction out of people?)

Don't forget that Ryko isn't Capitol. They're nowhere near the same level.... Advantages: probably a lot less red tape (and a lot more control over the recording), not to mention the fact that Ryko had the courage to sign Raspberries in the first place, whereas Capitol didn't seem to be interested. Disadvantages: nowhere near the promotion and distribution power.

As someone has written here before, the glass is half full, dammit!

[Don_Krider]

I know Al K has posted several apologies on EricCarmen.Com and there is also this apology on the message boards at the official site:

"I get all of your frustration - I'm frustrated too. But this website only package has SO many more components to it than the Ryko commercial version - and it simply takes longer to get all of the pieces and parts together. We wanted to make the Limited Edition and Special Edition as...well...SPECIAL as we could. We simply weren't willing to put a package together than was anything other than spectacular. Even if it took a little extra time to do it right. And some of the prep work to get the end result to be spectacular took extra time to complete. Then, when we added even more extras to the set than originally advertised the end result was that we needed even more time to put this spectacular package together. Did I mention that we think this set is spectaular?

You're right - it blows now, but the wait will be worth it.

Thanks for your understanding.

Al K"

__________

Al's post tells me the band is just as frustrated about the situation as the fans are, but they probably want to make sure each individual set has every "extra" in it that the band has promised so some fan doesn't get a package that is missing something.

Al K has also posted that everything ships on August 6, which is tomorrow, so everyone's wait should soon be over.

Me, I'm just relaxing at Bernie's "Boats Against The Current" 30th Anniversary Blog and loving the 1976 demo of "Runaway" that Bernie has posted (just Eric and a piano) --- like this website with so many free audio and video treats, it's free.

Bernie works his tail off at his expense to make these things happen on this website and at the Blog, and it's good of Eric Carmen to open the vault and let these musical gems reach our ears (so many artists now charge fans to pay for such extras at websites; not our guys).

And at Raspberriesonline.com, on the main page, there's plenty of new and vintage Raspberries video clips and "live" audio on the jukebox to make a visit worthwhile, all equally free to listen to and to view.

Don Krider

[Don_Krider]

I'd also urge anyone who hasn't done so, and who wants to, to sign Eric Carmen's online birthday card on this website --- his birthday is August 11, six days away!

Don Krider