Raspberries.net

[pierson]

marvin said:

but to fault artists like Huey Lewis or Billy Joel, is not a fair argument.

I wasn't trying to fault Billy Joel, even though I don't like him-- I do think he's extremeley talented & a very good songwriter-- Huey Lewis by comparison is just a very boring dude w/ songs that don't have any big aesthetic quality to them-- they're very faceless, albeit hummable, which some people think is a mark of talent- they're a lot like jingles

yes I knew he was part of Clover, but that doesn't make him a great singer & songwriter... He does have a good sense of humor and is a good actor-- a much more welcome presence on the screen then on the radio...

i will remain an elitist when there's LOTS of great music out there to be discovered by many that (to me) rates as high as the greatest Raspberries stuff.... stuff like Huey Lewis & The News just gets in the way of good stuff- even good bubblegum

[pierson]

Greg_Kihn said:

Just curious about Huey Lewis. One of my pop protagonists Greg Kihn was called a "poor mans Huey Lewis"... back in 1983...Do most people think Huey Lewis is better than Greg Kihn?

Talent-wise they rate about the same... although Kihn has a better "pop" voice (at least for us fans of 'Finger, Twilley, 'Berries, Big Star)...

a few other Reasons why Greg Kihn is better than Huey Lewis:

1. "Hurt So Bad"

2. his cover of Bruce's "For You"

3. "Museum"

4. more good taste in covers: "Sheila" & "Roadrunner"

[popdude]

pierson said:

a few other Reasons why Greg Kihn is better than Huey Lewis:

1. "Hurt So Bad"

2. his cover of Bruce's "For You"

3. "Museum"

4. more good taste in covers: "Sheila" & "Roadrunner"

Don't forget the quite wonderful "Beside Myself."

[TheScentLady]

Love his cover of Springsteen's "Rendezvous."

[chris hess]

wow...all this from the raspberries subject!!!!..lol,chris

[Paulie Mississippi]

Cast me in the lot that thinks Lewis' songs were catchy; I still love hearing "The Heart of Rock & Roll" in fact. But did I rush out to buy his albums?

No.

I will say that one year HL & the News performed the National Anthem at baseball's All-Star game... accapella before it was cool to do it... and it rocked! If for nothing else, they should be remembered for that.

[pierson]

I apologize for taking this thread too off topic... and i really wanted to get back to more of Eric's points... it's way too easy to be a pompous elitist and spew didactic crap about MOR American pop, although i like the discussion and it helps some of us sharpen our point of view and gives us more insight as to why someone like Huey Lewis does or does not matter... and why EC & Raspberries are so damn special...

per a recent discussion, it dawned on me that with a lot of MOR rock/pop artists (i.e. Doobie Bros, John Mellancamp, Hootie & The Blowish) there's a dilineation of artistic sensibility and mere product. (Doobies & Mellancamp have an artistic sense, Hootie don't). And this is the reason why i pointed out Huey Lewis & the News (in comparison to the Raspberries) in response to Eric's Olympic thought.

With HL & The News there is VERY LITTLE sense of the artist creating the music. The deeper one senses the disconnect the less important the music is. Unlike Billy Joel, who is almost always deeply entrenched in the music he creates (which will always give him credability and resonate deep with his fans), Huey sounds like he wrote his hits for soundtracks or for the band down the street to cover. Not bad if you want the next Pablo Cruise. Tragic if you're expecting the next Raspberries.

EC's passion for detail and overall quality control is why those incredible records were & are incredible. There are so many "wow" moments on the 'Berries records where you know the band is pushing to rise above the fray-- it's what draws most us in and always makes us shake our heads in disbelief...

the most recent live shows only EXPANDED this experience... the "wow" experience... it ain't no MOR crap- no complacent by the numbers music- no uber studio-giz that squashes the incendiary spirit- it's the balancing act & the ability to capture magic in a bottle... I do want to hear the live DVD of "I'm A Rocker" even though I already know HOW MUCH BETTER it was live (I saw it twice and was blown away).

Eric is absolutely right... both times i saw the band they made that song grow and transcend.. & it's what I usually point out to non-believers as the place where EC proved his true depth as a rock & roll singer.

ERIC CARMEN:

"Every performance better than the last. Learning from every performance. Fixing mistakes. Continually striving to be better. Never being complacent. Never accepting "good enough." The job was not designed to win a popularity contest... You can't get a great performance with a battering ram. I respect and care about every person on that stage. I HATE bombing and I HATE polite applause and I HATE mediocrity. I want our music to be transcendent."

[Tony Cartmill]

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...But that Huey...He had dreamy hair...And his smile just made my heart skip a beat...

[Bob Allen]

I kinda thought he looked like a car mechanic (and sang like one to boot).

[Bob Allen]

..perhaps (now that I think about it) that was the basis for his appeal - such as it was.

[Eric Carmen]

The name of the street I grew up on in Lyndhurst, Ohio......Emmit Road. Lived there from 2nd grade through junior high. It's like that weird coincidence in Bernie's book that almost made the hair on my arms stand up.The (Bu)Cyrus Erie company's address was on Raspberry Street. We had absolutely no knowledge of that when we named the band. That is beyond weird. ec

[Jeff]

Tony Cartmill said:

You know, I listened to Emmit Rhodes on a CD that I think MAM sent me...and I was not impressed...Is he an acquired taste?

No, Tony, I don't think he's an acquired taste. He is just simply a great songwriter. Maybe we need to educate you via hypnosis on this one .... Tony, you are getting sleepy .... sleepy ... You Love Emitt Rhodes ............ there you go!

[Raspbernie]

Eric Carmen said:

The name of the street I grew up on in Lyndhurst, Ohio......Emmit Road. Lived there from 2nd grade through junior high. It's like that weird coincidence in Bernie's book that almost made the hair on my arms stand up. The (Bu)Cyrus Erie company's address was on Raspberry Street. We had absolutely no knowledge of that when we named the band. That is beyond weird. ec

Where is Robert Ripley when you need him?!?

Bernie

[pierson]

The name of the street I grew up on in Lyndhurst, Ohio......Emmit Road. Lived there from 2nd grade through junior high.... The (Bu)Cyrus Erie company's address was on Raspberry Street. We had absolutely no knowledge of that.... That is beyond weird. ec

CALL IT INCREDIBLY WEIRD... especially for those of us who align Emitt Rhodes so closely with the 'Berries... those rare & few gifted artists in the early '70s who took the Beatles' (or, for more specificity, THE LEFT BANKE) lead & tried to keep a certain kind of music alive... Amazing...

[Jeff]

Raspbernie said:

Where is Robert Ripley when you need him?!?

Apparently, in a Cemetery in Santa Rosa, CA .... Believe it or Not !!!!

But, those are odd coincidences.

[MAM]

Bob Allen said:

I kinda thought he looked like a car mechanic (and sang like one to boot).

And just how does a car mechanic (actually we, who are highly trained & certified in the electronic aspect of automobiles and their 7 to 8 interacting on-board computers, prefer to be called "automotive technicians" nowadays) sing?

[raspberrywine]

With all this talk of Raspberry St. etc. we will soon be searching those Raspberry album covers and lyrics for hidden clues and meanings.

[Trindy]

Actually, I would disagree with the remarks that were made here a while back about the Olympics. Maybe it's because I'm a figure skating fan. I have some very fond memories of skaters who never even made it past their own national championships, much less won the Olympics. And personally, my favorite skater of them all won Olympic silver...not the gold.

I understand Eric not wanting to miss that "top of the podium." But my personal feeling is that if a skater spent all his time practicing, trying to perfect his programs, and never got into the arena and competed, he'd never win Olympic gold either.

There is such a thing as "the perfect being the enemy of the good." I deeply wish he would consider this.

Nothing we do guarantees success. All we can do is make ourselves the best we can, and then put it out there in the arena. Otherwise, the temptation to just "add a few more brushstrokes to the painting" could result in no one ever SEEING the painting.

[seattlesteve]

I never understood why if someone strived for years for the masses to hear their songs, that once a certain song hits, you immediately lose credibility. Isn't that the idea?

I will stand corrected if Eric doesn't back me up, but Billy Joel is, and always will be the real deal. I don't think his hits discounts his credibility. Eric is obviously in the same league, but if Eric pumped out 4 top ten songs in the next couple years are we happy or has he sold out? We all sit on this board talking about the great music no one knows about, but if the masses suddenly get it, shouldn't we be happy?

I don't think you're cooler because your music is great and no one buys it.

As a fan, good music is good music, unfortunately the artist has to also combine musical passion with a business career, and manage the ironic conflicts.

Eric, am I missing the boat?

[JohnO]

Speaking of Huey Lewis....he lost all credibility with my girlfriend at the time ('92 or '93, I'm guessing) when word got out that he used a prosthetic phallus for the peeing-in-the-creek scene in Robert Altman's "Short Cuts". She was impressed, prior to finding that out.....Now whether she cared for the man's music, who knows?

[JohnO]

"I never understood why if someone strived for years for the masses to hear their songs, that once a certain song hits, you immediately lose credibility. Isn't that the idea?"

This has always been a strange mystery to me...but I'm as guilty of it as anybody. I think it may have something to do with we fans thinking that we need to try our damndest to get our unheard favorites heard....then, when it happens, mission is accomplished, so move on to support the next underdog.

Another possibility is the fact that if an artist hits really big, you can't escape hearing his/her/their song everywhere, and it gets tiresome after awhile. For example, while the Beatles will always be one of my all-time favorites for obvious reasons, I could go a really long time without hearing their music....because, frankly, I've heard every song of theirs literally thousands of times. I'd rather hear someone do an interesting Beatles cover sometimes than the original again, which is firmly embedded in my mind forever.

Another theory I've had is that it's a weird "ownership" connection of sorts. You kinda feel like you've somehow bonded with obscure artists that you've discovered...and you don't want to share their music with just anybody....(one of the reasons that some cult artists really do NOT like their fans....nobody wants to be a cult artist - it just happens....and some fans seem to want to keep it that way with their faves.)

It's weird, because, deep down, I think everyone obviously wants their faves to be as successful as possible.

[Eric Carmen]

Billy Joel is absolutely the real deal. Great writer, great singer, great performer. America has a special love/hate relationship with celebrity. We cheer for the underdog until he's made it. Then we try to tear them down. I think it's because the level of celebrity here causes stars to become so overexposed that we get sick of them in a hurry. Do any of us ever care if we hear the name Paris Hilton again? ec

[teragram]

But, what about Emitt Rhodes, Eric? Have you ever heard his albums?

[Paulie Mississippi]

"Do any of us ever care if we hear the name Paris Hilton again? ec"

- And her little dog too!

[James]

She's... hot.