JuliaD Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Eric, I need to ask you something regarding celebrities in general. You know I'm a cake decorator in a commercial bakery. I frequently get asked by customers to put photos of celebrities on cakes, like their favorite musician, their favorite tv star, etc. I'm not absolutely certain what the rules regarding this are, but I would imagine a celebrities photo falls under the category of "copyright", and that putting a celebrities face on a cake to be sold to the general public is not something a bakery should get into. Any thoughts on this? Would the rules be different if it were a photo of a celebrity that the customer took themselves with their own camera? I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I can be of a little assistance here. The photographer owns the copyright of any picture he takes. If you hire/pay a photographer to take your picture, he still owns the copyright. If a photographer takes a "Senior picture" of a high school graduate, he owns the copyright. He hopes to sell you many copies of that picture and make some money. If you buy one picture, take it home and scan it, make a hundred copies and give them to your friends, there is really not much he is going to do about it. If you take that same picture and put it on a album cover, or give/sell it to a hair care company to put on it's shampoo bottle without negotiating usage fees, you have a problem. You are violating his copyright. You may own the picture he printed and gave to you, but he owns the rights to it's commercial usage. Of course this door swings both ways. If he takes your picture and puts it on a shampoo bottle (without a model release or negotiating compensation for you), then he has the problem. I don't think any photographer legally copyrights/registers every single frame he exposes. But if he can produce the original piece of film or the original digital file, he proves ownership and can sue for damages. Those damages can be determined by the court where the claim is filed. The compensation can vary. If the photographer has actually legally copyrighted the image, then it is a slam dunk; indisputable. The damages/compensation is already determined by the government agency that registers the copyright, and the penalties are steep (six figure steep). If you put a celebrities picture on one cake, chances are no one is going to chase you down. If you put the same picture on 50,000 cakes and sell them as a novelty, you had better paid for the right to use the image. If the customer took the picture with their own camera, they own the copyright and can do what they wish with it. Again, I don't think any celeb is going to sue a fan for putting a picture on a single cake. Since Bernie is actually in the ad business, I'm sure he knows more about this then I do. I suspect he or Eric will have some additional info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliaD Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Thanks for all the info, and anyone who has anything to add, please feel free to do so. Jerry, do you have any comments regarding my question about a photo the customer took themselves of a celebrity? One example I can give you is something on the table at my bakery right now... a customer went to a wrestling match and took several photos of her son with some of the wrestlers. Can these photos be put on cakes, or being these wrestlers are celebrities of sorts, is it still not allowed? My own feelings on it are, we offer several wrestling logos and such that we *do* have permission to use (via a company called decopac), so I see no reason to possibly jeopardize our store by doing ANYTHING questionable. But I'm still curious to know if doing so *could* lead to legal problems. I'm very conscientious about things like this, I like my t's crossed and my i's dotted, but I'm definitely in the market to hear from those who might have more answers than I do. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkpat Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 My daughter Amanda is a huge fan of the Chicago Blackhawks. A number of years ago, when she turned ten, I wanted to get a Hawks emblem to put on her cake. When I was at the bakery, I saw all the local teams (Bulls, Cubs, Bears, White Sox) but no Blackhawks. When I asked if they made it, the baker said they were not allowed to. She suggested I call the team and get approval. At that time, the Hawks were notoriously the cheapest team in professional sports.I couldnt believe it was that big a deal, but I knew some people who worked in the front office and called them just to see. One of the people I knew told me "it's hard to believe isn't it, as it's only publicity for the team, but they refuse to give licensing for cakes like the other teams do." He joked "we need that three cents from your kid, right?"Well, her favorite player on the team was Tony Amonte, who happened to wear number ten, so the baker made a big number ten like the Hawks jersey, with black and red trimming, and it looked AMAZING, exactly like the jersey, and my daughter was thrilled.Since then, I have been in that same bakery and have noticed the Blackhawks are now represented with the other local sports teams.Any Eric cake would HAVE to have raspberry filling, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy-Ann Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Being the "Martha Stewart" in my circle of friends, easiest way if a bakery can't do photos on cakes...get them to make and ice the cake and add a nice decorative edge to the cake. Then you can take a photo or photos, laminate them and place them on the cake. For my Daddy's 80th bday, I had a center photo and then I placed other photos on the cake but standing up. All laminated. At the bakery, I placed the center photo on the cake and asked the baker to write wording around it before I brought it home. If I was to do a cake for a Raspberries get together, of course as was stated, the filling would be raspberry and the cake white... I'm sure I'd pick one of Bernie's photos of the week and print it out or down load it and print it at CVS and laminate it. Once I placed it in the center of the cake, I would add a raspberry color border around the photo and add fresh raspberries around the border of the cake. That would be a simple cake, if it was larger I'd probably add more photos. Ok, I just re-read this and realized I have waaaaaaaaaaaay too much time on my hands and need to get over to Home Depot and have them darken the paint I bought the other day! Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlene Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Julia !! I'm still thinking about that amazing cake you made and brought to the band...where was it, Atlantic City ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy-Ann Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 marlene said: Julia !! I'm still thinking about that amazing cake you made and brought to the band...where was it, Atlantic City ??? Does anyone have a pic? I'd love to see what a professional can do...always can use a new tip or two to try and spruce up a homemade cake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliaD Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 WendyWorld said: Being the "Martha Stewart" in my circle of friends, easiest way if a bakery can't do photos on cakes...get them to make and ice the cake and add a nice decorative edge to the cake. Then you can take a photo or photos, laminate them and place them on the cake. For my Daddy's 80th bday, I had a center photo and then I placed other photos on the cake but standing up. All laminated. At the bakery, I placed the center photo on the cake and asked the baker to write wording around it before I brought it home. If I was to do a cake for a Raspberries get together, of course as was stated, the filling would be raspberry and the cake white... I'm sure I'd pick one of Bernie's photos of the week and print it out or down load it and print it at CVS and laminate it. Once I placed it in the center of the cake, I would add a raspberry color border around the photo and add fresh raspberries around the border of the cake. That would be a simple cake, if it was larger I'd probably add more photos. Ok, I just re-read this and realized I have waaaaaaaaaaaay too much time on my hands and need to get over to Home Depot and have them darken the paint I bought the other day! Wendy Hey, I'm the offical cake-maker for Bernie's gatherings! It's not safe to laminate something and put it on a cake. Laminates aren't food safe, and someone could get ill eating a piece of cake that laminate sat on, because icing has moisture, and the plastic can leech into the icing. It's a given that it's possible to eat a cake with a laminate on it and NOT get ill, but I wouldn't take the chance. Nowadays many laminates are made with recycled plastics, and who knows WHAT you'd be putting on that cake. It's also not safe to buy toys at a dept. store and put them on a cake. Bakeries use toys from Bakerycraft and DecoPac, and they are food safe. Toys in dept. stores are not. Remember that lead thing a few months ago? You could be putting leaded paint onto a cake. Yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boopell Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hey,I was a cake decorator ,too! My favorites were always the wedding cakes. It's been a few years and now I just do cakes for family and friends. I love it, though, and I did the groom's cake for my son's wedding and wedding cakes for a few of my friends. My cousin is a florist and wedding director and we've talked about opening a business together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy-Ann Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 JuliaD said: Hey, I'm the official cake-maker for Bernie's gatherings! It's not safe to laminate something and put it on a cake. Laminates aren't food safe, and someone could get ill eating a piece of cake that laminate sat on, because icing has moisture, and the plastic can leech into the icing. OMGOSH...and it was a cake decorator who TOLD me to do that. WORD! Oh, don't worry about cakes for gatherings...I should never be so brazen to even try to attempt anything you do. I was speaking of the ones I have with my pretend friends in my little room when no one is looking! LOL! Thanks soooooooooooooo much for the tips Julia! Now I know who to email if I have a question...if you don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliaD Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 No, I don't mind a bit. One good thing about working for a company as large as mine is there are people who are always looking out for us, and we are kept up to speed. The world is changing in leaps and bounds, and not all of it is good. Recycling is a good thing in some ways, but in others, it can be dangerous, or even sometimes deadly. You have to be careful. We even got a warning regarding printing photos on fake cakes we use for displays... we always used to print the image for fake cakes on photo paper, as fluorescent lights fade out images on edible "paper" very quickly, and the displays look like crap in a week. Now we're told not to use photo paper because there's an emulsion on it that could remain on the printer rollers and possibly get residue on an edible image for someone's cake, and the emulsion can be toxic. You really do need to be on your toes when you work with food, many things can "go wrong". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crg2 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Actually, the legal concept for this protection is a property right in the celebrity's "Likeness." "Likeness Rights" were orignally a creature of state statute (I'm sure that this fact is changing rapidly, but I'm guessing), with Indiana, of all places, being the promulgator of the original "Model Statute." I haven't looked up "Likeness" law in a long while, and I am unable to give you advice on here. Oddly, A consultation with an attorney over a cake is really the only way to get your answer. . . . or you could just ask a Raspberry or two whether it's okay ? I don't know much about baking, but don't most commercial bakeries have those computerized icing sprayers that replicate a scanned image from a computer onto the surface of a cake in an edible, non-poisonous way (Never mind, I think JuliaD answered that one above. Sorry.)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cartmill Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Which reminds me of a joke: What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kiwi Connection Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinberries Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 no copyright on eric's likeness necessary if the cake is flavored.... raspberrysorry, couldn't resist (cue cheezy cartoon trumpet w/ plunger sound bit: "wowh wowh wowh wowhwww..") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cartmill Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I'm not quite sure Eric has much experience with these copyright issues since true artists just sign on the bottom line and don't let that "fine print" stuff intrude on their creative process... Besides, from what I've heard, the managers, lawyers and music executives will take care of them...and all that boring stuff. Why worry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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