LAST CHANCE FOR BERRIES INTERNET CD / DVD!!

[LC]

Well, you make some valid complaints, F-berrie, and I can see the sense in the option of a $20 or $25 DVD sold separately.

But your argument is really weighed down by your use of wholesale prices (guestimates). That's a reach. Really. I mean, why should the band sell us that package for $9.08, or whatever your math comes out to? If your argument had any validity, then we'd all be paying $2 for every new CD release, 45 cents for a loaf of bread, and 50 cents or less per gallon of gas. Raspberries has to run itself like a business, and what business can operate successfully if it sells everything at cost? C'mon.... (And calling the band "greedy" is pretty short-sighted, if you ask me. But that's just my opinion.)

PS: About your note on autographs.... Don't use eBay's results as your measuring stick. There's a real problem on eBay with fake and fraudulent autographs. So if something doesn't sell, it was probably fake --- or at least suspicious. I'm not saying that the ones you saw are fake, but apparently they don't strike buyers as legit. Ask Bernie -- he has seen a number of fake Eric autographs offered on eBay. To collectors, authenticity is the key. And they tend to pay more if something is genuine and has airtight provenance.

[mellie]

Maybe they could put together a really special budget saver deal for the folks that just want the music instead of a keepsake. They could salvage the CDs and DVDs with imperfect label print and slap on an Avery CD label with the title and any old photo and call it good. As long as the music and video are alright, they should be able to charge at least $10 for that set.

[Maggie Clarke]

OK, Raspbernie. I was just asking for some friendly help here, that if anybody saw it and felt like alerting me, it would be most welcome. I get so overwhelmed that I forget to check often, and will be traveling for a few weeks in February and that almost guarantees I will miss it if they wait to spring a few more copies on us then without prior notice. I can't be checking constantly to make sure I don't miss it. Notice would be a good thing. I just have the feeling I will miss it again.

As for the price, sounds ok to me. The cost of materiel is a small fraction of real costs. Labor is the big one that was left out. The platters don't burn, wrap and mail themselves. The videographers were probably paid, yes? Then there's the labor of the band members and others in producing the DVD/CD compilations. I could go on, but you get the picture.

[Tim From Wisconsin]

frankenberrie: You couldn't be more wrong. What good does it do to insult the entire band, and those assosiated with it? This "Elitist offering" as you call it is the first new offering by the band in decades, and you choose to rip them for it? I guess some people are just not happy unless they are unhappy. I can't believe that people actually believe that there is "greed" involved in this package. I don't have a lot of money, and I thought this was a fantastic deal! There is no reason to cheapen it with petty whining. I too have held back from posting negative thoughts, but mine are toward my fellow fans who just can't be happy for some reason. This is a new release by the Raspberries for gosh sakes! If you would have told me 3 years ago that not only was I going to be able to see them twice in concert, buy the cool book "Tonight", buy this incredible package, and also have the hope of more live shows, I would have said you are crazy. But, it is happening! Now - Leave the 99% of us who are happy stay happy!

There, I feel better...

Tim

[Gene]

A decree from a lawyer or judge saying you win... 2 cents worth of paper. 500 professional photographs of your daughters wedding, on a disk to last a lifetime, 50 cents. The talent to produce those documents in the first place... priceless.

A CD or DVD from the tour is only worth what a blank disk from Office Depot should cost? What can I say? Find a new band to admire.

[Raspbernie]

Obviously if the band thought they could sell 10,000 copies of the full concert on DVD, they would. That would make it retail for, say, the same price as KISSology is at Best Buy -- around $29.95. Fact is, they weren't sure how long it was gonna take to sell 300. Boy, were they surprised! And aside from how cheaply one can buy blank media, producing such a small run of a CD/DVD package is decidedly NOT cheap.

Your support of their reunion concerts and releases is what will motivate them to plug in and play come Spring 2007! Your very surprising vote of confidence is what made the DVD package sell out so quickly! And that same Raspberrymania will fuel the quick sell-out of any additional sets the band decides to offer. Keep in mind, that offering a small number of additional sets will still constitute a VERY LOW number for a limited release.

Bernie

[frankenberrie]

I agree, I didn't take into account the production costs, but the lion's share are probably covered by the Ryko deal. If you want me to guess at those numbers, I can too, since I have recorded several albums, and have worked on video crews that produced several DVDs for release. I believe I read in the Inside Story thread that the engineer called this a "labor of love" implying he did the work either gratis, or at cost. Video crew in LA? Anywhere from $500-up, depending on who you know. And the production costs I quoted are costs of finished, professionally produced, shrink wrapped CD/DVD products, from a reputable maker like Diskmakers, not for raw blanks. Are these discs going to be professionally printed, slip cased? Nobody knows but the band. I am not expecting the band to make no profit, and Bernie acknowledges Kiss made a great multi disc set fairly priced around $30. But comparing Kiss to the Raspberries is unfair, and I daresay that a band as intelligent at marketing and has had numerous platinum albums as Kiss will obviously sell millions more than a Raspberries DVD. Believe it or not, I've heard the Kiss set called a ripoff too, as they made several different versions for different stores, and much of the footage had been available on semi legal DVDS before. I already said I'd be more than happy to spend $25 on a single DVD, which is more than a fair price. If the band did everything in house, the potential to sell a 1000 DVDS at $25, with production costs under $3, will bring in another $20,000+ profit, and make many people happy, and possibly even bring in new fans. And no, 99% of the people posting about this are obviously not all happy, or we wouldn't be at 8 pages discussing this, mine wasn't the first negative post. I'm very happy for the people that have that kind of disposable income, but I feel cheated that I won't be able to get this at all. I have spent $500+ on 3 Raspberries concerts, and purchased all the legit CDs, books, etc and read the hype for a year, only to get the door slammed in my face. Sorry to upset you, dude.

Blue Oyster Cult is one of my favorite bands, and they offer lithos for way more than the Raspberries, about $150. But when they released the DVD 2 years ago, EVERYBODY could buy one, and anyone that wanted the CD with an extra song could too. And they are more than happy to sign them for fans before & after shows for free. OTOH, the only way to obtain the Raspberries DVD is thru a highly priced elite package that only very few fans will ever own, yes ELITE, only 300 copies, limited, etc, this is the definition of an elite package. I understand this is the first release in years, but you'll forgive me if I feel no joy at a release that shuts out many of the band's fans. This is why I kept my mouth shut before. The commercial release holds no appeal for me, it's a tease.

PS, LC: As I stated earlier, autographs only have any real meaning to me when obtained in person, I'm aware Ebay autographs can sometimes be suspect. But in any case you can't compare a set of autographs to a limited litho. Even one of your prices cited is a misnomer, as Beatles autograph sets generally sell for $5-20,000, the price you quote is for George Harrison's sister's personal LP, signed by George & Lennon "to Sis". and obviously one of a kind, hence the $115,000 price tag at auction.

PPS: Gene, yes many concerts including the Armed Forces full show can be easily found online for the cost of a blank disc. I never said I expected the band to make no profit, and the attitude to find another band to like? Well, guess what, dude? I like many many bands, and for $135 can buy 10-20 CDs by up & coming acts, but that's not the answer here. I'm glad the raspberries have so many well heeled fans, thanks for the so understanding attitude towards people less fortunate than yourself.

[Raspbernie]

Don't misunderstand me, you make a lot of very good points, Franken. I just don't know how the Ryko deal is structured. Maybe the band can't sell mass-marketed DVDs of the full show until the Ryko CD/DVD sets have been released. I do know that the band is not producing these limited editions "in house." They are being handled by Ryko, so they'll be quite handsome! I agree that it would be great if the full DVD can be made available in larger quantities at some point! I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Bernie

[frankenberrie]

Thanks for the reply, Bernie, and I patiently await the day the full DVD can hopefully be offered.

And PS the best thing to come from this thread is Bernie's intimation of amps being plugged in this spring:)

[Tim From Wisconsin]

You didn't upset me fb, I guess since I am an avid concert goer and music collector, when a band I love comes out with something cool and new I want it all! I had my impending tax refund in mind when I ordered.

I too like BOC a lot! My personal favorite album is "Cultosaurus Erectus". That was a great tour also, they played the entire album besides lots of their hits.

Tim

[frankenberrie]

Hi Tim, Yeah I want it all too, but just couldn't justify this one. Hoping a DVD only will be eventually released.

And BOC still rock, just saw them recently, they have a new bassist & drummer that sound like the old Bouchard Bros, even if Eric Bloom did just hit retirement age, LOL! There are 2 reissue Columbia Legacy series CDs from them coming out in February, Some Enchanted Evening, with a full concert DVD & bonus tracks, you can preorder on Amazon for about $30, and Spectres with bonus tracks for about $15.

[LC]

F-berrie:

1) Now, how can you come out and say that this thread is 8 pages long because people are objecting to the limited edition package and price? Go back and read it. It's mostly positive.

2) In your back-room budgeting, you're still leaving out a key element: What is the value associated with Raspberries playing together? You're conveniently forgetting that they've been out of circulation, as a group, for 31 years. The "event" of their reunion should (and does) have a cost associated with it. This isn't a Three Dog Night oldies show with the original singer and a backup band. Its Raspberries --- the original lineup. Remember?

3) If you have spent $500 attending three Raspberries reunion shows, I don't feel a bit sorry for you. I went to zero shows for this, that, or the other reason, so I'm not tapped out on my 'berries budget.

4) Re: the autographs thing.... The points I was making (and I totally don't get your latest argument) is that A) there's value associated with the autographs of the Raspberries; you can't gauge the value by what sells or doesn't sell on eBay; C) it's better to use real auction results as a gauge, regardless of whether it's a cut sig or a litho or an album cover; D) authenticity is a key when you're getting autographs that you didn't see signed in person, and because these are coming from "headquarters," I'm fully confident that they're real.

5) If you don't want the package as offered, or you can't afford it, or you won't buy it because you think the band is being greedy, well, that's your decision. But you don't have to go whining about it and insulting the band and everyone who paid for the set. We're all glad we can talk about Raspberries in the present tense. Many of us couldn't get to a show, and we haven't bought a ton of things related to the reunited Raspberries. So --- as you'll find in re-reading this thread --- we're okay with the price. Cheaper is always better, yes, but it sounds like most of us aren't begrudging Raspberries a chance to make a little dough. And the consensus seems to be: The price is fair enough.

6) I'd bet that at some point, you'll see a DVD of the whole show issued as a single product, without all the bells and whistles. In the meantime, the standard national CD release (with a DVD sampling) isn't exactly chopped liver, is it?

7) While I respect your opinion and your right to post it, I've also formed this opinion: that you're one of those "can't be pleased" types of people (I'm married to one, so I know of which I speak). Heck, if John and George came back from the dead and played a reunion show with Paul and Ringo, you'd probably grumble about paying any more than $14.99 for a DVD of the show....

[frankenberrie]

LC, in answer to your points:

1. you stated 99% of the people were happy. But yet there are other people who are less than pleased that have posted on this thread. So I submit, your 99% was incorrect. Yes, more are happy than mad, but not 99%. There are several other complaints, perhaps not in as strong of a language, but this thread is not all happy shiny people. I thought long & hard before even posting regarding this, and only when I started to realize that a number of other longtime fans were also shut out that I finally voiced my opinion.

2. Yes, that has a value, called an intangible.

The reunion did have a pricetag attached, and the band was fairly paid for all the shows they played.

This is not really fair to factor in. Those who saw the shows paid the fees demanded for tickets and travel. However there are many other bands with original members still touring, that have made DVDs available for far less in retail packages. Cheap Trick springs to mind. They have a number of recent CDs & DVDs, and constantly tour. They also went into their vaults, and made a series called "Bun E's basement" which they offered to the fan club commercially produced, limited edition CDs for the same price as a record store. Tons of profit to the band, which plays the same size venues as Raspberries. I do have a number of other limited Ryko releases, which all cost premium prices, but more in line with normal releases, say 10-20% higher than just a regular cd. I've stated repeatedly I'd be more than willing to pay a fair price for such a DVD. My budgeting is just as subjective as your spurious pricing of the package.

3. I'm not tapped out on my raspberries budget, and could have sacrificed other things, had I really cared to own the full package. However, I am really only interested in the DVD, as the sound will be as good as a CD, and can be played as one. There are much more prolific posters here that also could not afford to purchase this item, for whatever reason.

4. Autographs are a completely subjective thing. They have no real value, and are worth something for the emotional connection to the artist only.

Hence, as I clearly said, the only autographs I have in my collection are ones I have obtained in person. These mean something to me. I have never in my life paid for an autograph, but yet have many priceless ones to me(Kiss, John Belushi, Ramones, Police, Blue Oyster Cult, too many bands, wrestlers & personalities to list, and I pretty much stopped getting things signed 20 years ago, so I could have had hundreds more, all free) You compared the value of a set of autographs on paper to the value of autographs on a signed litho, not the same thing, nor the same $$$ value. You pointed out your ferinstances, so did I. You compared the Raspberries autograph to a one of a kind Beatles item, so I just did an Ebay search to see what was up there right now, and those were the closed auctions, with no bids. There were no others with bids to compare. Agreed, if you care about that kind of thing, there is no better place to get them then directly from the site.I myself place no value on autographs, unless I am selling them.

5. I don't feel I've insulted anyone. I have clearly stated that I feel this is a elite package that only few will own, how is that an insult?

People that have money know they do, I'm sure,

and I didn't call anyone any names or anything.

Everyone here loves this band, or wouldn't post.

Sorry if it sounds like whining, I thought that message boards were to post honest opinions? If anyone has been insulting here, it's you, who is attacking me and projecting things onto me. I'm just interested in letting the band know how I feel. And since Bernie answered, I was more than happy to let this drop, and be patient. I am bummed out because I've been reading the hype for a year, and now get the door slammed in my face due to elite pricing. If they had said months ago there would be no release other than a highly priced special set, I would have ignored the threads & hype relating to this project. If anyone should feel insulted, it's the fans who have given their support to the band, but are now denied the fruits of the monies spent helping support that band. If idiots like me hadn't been willing to spend money on tickets to those concerts, this package would probably not even be coming out. I don't regret spending any of the money I spent on the Raspberries, and I certainly don't begrudge them the chance to make some money on this deal, I'm just trying to make it clear to the band that there are disappointed fans over this whole deal.

I figured they would do some kind of package, and would not have ever raised a peep had they decided to make the DVD available separately.

6. I certainly hope the DVD will get released, but I really have no interest in seeing a few songs on DVD, and a concert CD. I was waiting for the full show DVD promised us. To me, the commercial package is a tease, and may be fine for novice fans. To me, compared to a full show DVD, it's Chopped Liver. And I hate liver.

7. I can very easily be pleased, look at my PS on the last post, I'm happy as a pig in shite that BOC

has decided to rerelease 2 classic LPs with a DVD & bonus tracks,fairly priced, all of which the band will not get paid for until all the expenses are recouped. This is the second series of BOC reissues, and they have lost $$$$ in royalties both times just to be able to make these rereleases & please their fans. Meanwhile, those fans still bitch about all the other stuff in the vaults, anyways. And this is no arena act, in fact they are playing BB King's in a couple weeks. And no, I wouldn't pay 14.99 to see a Beatles reunion DVD recorded in this century, but would gladly pay the same for classic 1960s shows on DVD:), and have! I'd also be pleased to spend $25-30 for a Raspberries DVD:)

[Gene]

Frankenberrie. I was rude and apologize. If it were not for shooting for the band, I'd maybe find myself waiting for a lesser expensive option. Still, it is supply and demand and I wouldn't hold it against anyone if the most desirable package were too expensive for me. I don't know, but I'd imagine there will be some nice options available soon with a not-so limited edition tagging.

[HT from Mo]

These are all valid points that everyone has made. I'm not going to try to re-hash everything that has been said. I just have one question for Frankenberrie: Who do you consider a "novice fan"? I don't think that there is one single person on this board that I consider is a "novice". Most of us here have been fans for years. There are a few of us that have been fans for a short while... say less than 10 yrs. If that is considered "novice" then count me in. I personally have been a fan of Eric's music for 20 years and counting. I discovered the Raspberries after the fact and I've spent a little more this year on aquiring 3 of the bands cd's, Bernie & Ken's book - Marathon Man, and the LE set. I do consider myself a true fan and I have an understanding for what they went through in the early days and they deserve to enjoy the fruits(no pun intended) of their labor.

We all hold a special place in our hearts for this band. Let's keep it that way.

HT

[LC]

F-berrie,

Your arguments are vacuous, but you do have a way....

--LC

[LC]

PS: Where did you come up with that "99%" number? I said "most are happy," but never assigned a number to it.

But now that you mention it, the fact is that 96% of those who posted on this thread are okay with the price (thanks, Mellie, for the research!).

Well, I'll bow out of this argument and let you get the last word if you'd like... and I'll also invite you to come by and watch the complete DVD if you're ever in New England. No hard feelings.

--LC

[frankenberrie]

Hell, I'm almost a novice fan:) I only rediscovered my old cassette of the Raspberries greatest hits in September 2004, and was really digging it, playing it every day. I never dreamed I'd see this band live. Imagine my surprise when I was told in April '05 they were coming to NYC. At that point, I finally did the research, grabbed the Power Pop Cds, found the websites, saw them 3 times, etc. Since then, Bernie graciously sent me a copy of his EC book, after I sent him my pics from BB kings, and I obtained a few DVDS and a bunch of live CDs & demos trading online. I also wrote a feature on the band which was published in Spain in 2005. The 19 song cd/5 song dvd is a great introduction to the band for a newer fan,but I will be patient, and hope to obtain the DVD later and I wish the Raspberries success so they can continue on!

[chris hess]

well..this is why i posted my message a lil while back..if u go back and look..this is what i meant..lol,chris

[SCBadfinger]

Between, insane work schedules, a dying (now deceased) father-in-law, and my 2 young boys who demand my free time, I missed out on the offer.

Please, please, please, offer more special edition packages. Perhaps you can make them a little less special, by not having them signed, or not including a Raspberries pin.

Please!?

[Raspbernie]

About your note on autographs.... Don't use eBay's results as your measuring stick. There's a real problem on eBay with fake and fraudulent autographs. So if something doesn't sell, it was probably fake --- or at least suspicious. I'm not saying that the ones you saw are fake, but apparently they don't strike buyers as legit. Ask Bernie -- he has seen a number of fake Eric autographs offered on eBay. To collectors, authenticity is the key. And they tend to pay more if something is genuine and has airtight provenance.

For instance:

RASPBERRIES SIGNED LP

Total crap! Beware when buying autographs on eBay. Anyone can offer a Certificate of Authenticity—including a forger!

Bernie

[JohnO]

Just another comment about the cost of the limited edition package. In the latest Rolling Stone, they published a list of the top 10 concert draws in 2006, and the average ticket prices:

(1) Rolling Stones - $136.63

(2) Tim McGraw/Faith Hill - 80.92

(3) Rascal Flatts - 46.17

(4) Kenny Chesney - 58.34

(5) Madonna - 183.76

(6) Babs Streisand - 293.36

(7) Celine Dion - 135.33

(8) Red Hot Chili Peppers - 56.92

(9) Bon Jovi - 75.57

(10) Nickelback - 40.11

Based on these figures, which don't include transport to the show, souvenirs, snacks, etc., I'd say $125 plus shipping for a live DVD, live CD, autographs, plus all the extras is very reasonable!.....unless you're primarily a country & western or Nickelback fan....

One thing that's also been left out of these posts about the pricing for the Raspberries package - and it may NOT have played a part at all....as in the case of Stones/Madonna/Babs tickets, I would assume that the audience for Eric & co. would likely be a bit older than for the typical rock concert nowadays....baby boomers who do tend to have more disposable income. Now, this doesn't mean that everybody who's a die-hard fan can afford the package, but I'd guess that most of us who want it have been able to scrape up the money.....

Lastly, for what it's worth - last October, I had the choice of seeing Raspberries at the LA HOB show, or seeing a Cream reunion show in NYC. As Ticketmaster pulled their usual shenanigans with the Cream tickets (selling tons to scalping agencies and companies, their phone lines ALWAYS being busy the day tickets went on sale), I estimated that the LA show, including paying to fly there, was considerably cheaper than the NYC show would have been, between paying scalper ticket prices, driving to NY, staying a night in Manhattan or NJ, etc. For that, I thank the band!!!

[Raspbernie]

I'll probably be sorry about posting this in the morning, but I just can't take it anymore. So here goes: Over at raspberries.net, one MAJOR ASS (who shall remain nameless) continues to insinuate that somehow or other, Jim Bullotta and I are raking in the dough from various Raspberries projects, past and present. To wit:

"Some people involved with the site(s) are in it for the money as we all know. Band members not included."

Now, I don't know where this IDIOT gets his info, but bear with me for a moment as I let off some steam.

Jim Bullotta designed, runs and maintains raspberriesonline.com for FREE! He does not get paid for his GREAT work on behalf of the band. Nor was he paid to design the Raspberries tour posters, nor was he paid to professionally videotape live concerts—including the L.A. show, which will be featured on the live DVD. Why? Well, hard as it is to believe, some people do things because they CARE rather than to make a buck!

Over the past ten years, I have spent thousands of MY OWN dollars promoting this band. Not once, have I received a nickel from any of them. This includes professional services, art direction, editing, fees paid for archiving and transferring tapes, FedEx charges, time, travel, promotion, designing, printing, manufacturing and helping sell tour merchandise, etc. I do it with great passion, energy and perfectionism. I do it to thank them for a lifetime of music. To suggest that I am "in it for the money" is just another ignorant, hateful, pathetic comment from this attention-starved jerk.

Bernie

[Tony Cartmill]

Why, such language gives me the vapors. Hold my bong for me while I faint...

Bernie, was that a cheap stunt to get me to go over to the other site and search for that thread...so you could make more money?

[HT from Mo]

I am so sorry to hear that Bernie.

Shame on that person. What right does he have to say things like that? None. You and Jim Bulotta have done an outstanding job and do fine work. And, it's on your own time to boot!

If it were me, I wouldn't take a dime either because that's just me. People do things like that because they do care.

Mark my words. It'll come around to bite him in the hiney(I could say something worse than that but I'll refrain)sooner or later. - Hopefully sooner rather than later.

I guess he isn't man enough to post here - GOD help him if he does!

Anyway,

I hope everything's ok. Remember, you, Kathy, and Ted do a FANTASTIC JOB! Keep up the FABULOUS WORK! We love ya for it!

HT(Beth)