Tony's Question Answered

[Eric Carmen]

Tony, here it is in a nutshell. It's called the music BUSINESS for a reason. The men who created sheet music, phonograph records, top forty radio, the long- playing album, music publishing, record labels, management firms, booking agencies and all of the cottage industries related to those things were in it for one reason. THE MONEY. The guy who gave Fabian a recording contract was not trying to enrich culture and, sadly, neither was the guy who signed The Beatles. They were just guys who ran labels and thought maybe they could make a few bucks by signing them. It's always been that way. If you go rent the movie "Amadeus" (I highly recommend it) you will see Mozart struggling along financially, constantly trying to make enough money to pay his rent and buy groceries (and a few bottles of wine.) Back then, you had a "Patron," someone willing to pay you to do a work for hire. Today it's called a 'Label." Artists, by their very nature, are artists, altruists dedicated to the love of beauty in it's many forms. They aren't interested in business. They want to look for universal truths through writing or painting or composing. They want to share their ideas with others and the "business' understands this about them. It exploits they're lack of business sense by offering them incredibly complicated legal documents that appear to give the artists what they need ( recording funds, promotion, distribution, tour support and the chance to let the public hear their works) in exchange for most of the royalties the artist earns from the sale of the artists art. It's set up so that everyone in the food chain gets paid before the artist. The artist get's what's left. Unless the artist becomes Bruce Springsteen or U2 there's usually not that much left. That's why you hear about a group like the Bangles having ten hit records and breaking up and filing for bankruptcy. The label, producer, road crew,agent and manager all made money . By the time they were paid there wasn't much left for the band. Becoming Springsteen is the carrott they dangle in front of you. Very few ever achieve it. The band breaks up in frustation. The label, producer, publisher, agent and manager move on to the next project, the next act, the next artist. The business continues on, the artist fades away. The business see it as fair game. The artist leaves broke and disillussioned. ec

[ira]

Eric-I often wondered what artists made in 1960's dollars.Mike Smith-lead singer of The Dave Clark 5 was also apparently co-writer of some of their huge hits.I know you remember that they were second to the Beatles for a couple of years.When a tragic accident left him a parapalegic-he needed a benefit at BB King's to get a good wheelchair.I'm a damn teacher and I'm in better financial shape,with better health insurance than the guy who wrote "Glad All Over".What's wrong with this picture?" I'm glad for all of us that you "stayed the course" and gave us so much joy despite all the "Desperate (thieves and) Fools" you have to deal with.-Ira.

[Raspbernie]

Kathy and I saw Lesley Gore do a lecture/performance recently in new York City. Gore burst on the music scene while a junior in high school with the hit song, "It's My Party." Since that grand beginning in 1963 (the year she was discovered by producer Quincy Jones and signed to Mercury Records), she has had more than two dozen chart hits and sold more than 60 million albums worldwide. With hits like "Judy's Turn to Cry," "Sunshine, Lollipops and Rainbows," "California Nights" and "You Don't Own Me," Gore helped create the soundtrack of the early '60s. Incredibly, her contract had a provision that if she didn't ask for an audit of the record label's accounting in the first year, she was forbidden to do so in later years. The shameful result is that she admitted that she made a TOTAL of $16,000 from Mercury Records from the sale of all of those albums and hit singles! That folks, is just another story of the out-and-out criminal actions of the record business. Do I lament their demise in this age of downloadable music and digital filesharing? Not for a second!

Bernie

[Don_Krider]

Here's more evidence of how badly the music business treats it's songwriters and muscians (which I've also posted on Raspberries.net). I just think this is such an important issue that it needs attention.

On Dec. 9, 2005, a group of major Kentucky songwriters wrote the most informative letter on the issue of how hard it is to make money in the music business to The (Louisville, Ky.) Courier-Journal and I'll bet you can relate to it (it knocked my socks off).

One of Kentucky's congressmen (Ron Lewis, R-Ky.) is trying to pass the Songwriters Capital Gains Tax Equity Act, which the newspaper is against, so these Kentucky songwriters wrote their letter in regard to that newspaper's stance.

The letter:

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From http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051209/OPINION02/512090369/1016/ARCHIVES:

Songwriters object to C-J editorial

Have you ever heard of us? Jerry Chestnut, James Dean Hicks, Ron Hellard, Lisa Palas, Alan Rhody, Norro Wilson or Kent Blazy? Probably not. We are all professional songwriters born in Kentucky who wrote hits such as: "I'm No Stranger to the Rain," "Jesus and Mama," "If Tomorrow Never Comes," "It's Been A Good Year for the Roses," and "The Most Beautiful Girl." Our songs have been recorded by artists ranging from Garth Brooks to Loretta Lynn to Aaron Neville. But like most songwriters, we have gone largely unnoticed.

We are responding to the Dec. 1 editorial headlined "Lewis honky-tonk tax cuts." The editorial implies that the "Songwriters Capital Gains Tax Equity Act" is some sort of special-interest legislation that is undeserved. Here are the facts and what every songwriter goes through:

Our profession's average annual income is below $5,000 per year. The federal government determines our maximum wage of 8.5 cents per song, per record, which we usually divide four ways with our co-writer and corporate music publisher to generally earn 2.175 cents every time a record is sold. We earn even less when a song is played on the radio and on top of all that, the federal government requires us to receive royalties immediately after collection. This means we earn virtually nothing for years, then on a successful song are thrust for one year into a tax bracket for rich people! No other authors in America are under these federal restrictions. They have the power to negotiate their incomes and in many instances average them through contracts for tax purposes!

Every day our work is being stolen -- 30 billion times in 2004 -- on the Internet. We have no company health insurance, pension or other benefits. Two-thirds of all American professional songwriters have lost their jobs in the last decade.

If you are one of the lucky few to write some hits, you can propose a joint-venture business partnership with a corporate music publisher. You will pay at least half of all the costs of getting your song ready to market. Demos run around $1,000 each, and if one out of 10 of those songs gets picked up by an artist, you're doing great, so you should demo a lot of them. Like some, you might want to lease your own office, build a studio in your home and hire someone to hit the streets to get those songs heard. You'll have to pay promotion costs to radio to get the song heard if one gets recorded.

After writing hundreds of songs and working for years to build your publishing company with your corporate partner, you each both decide to sell the business. Your corporate partner pays the capital gains tax rate of 15 percent. The songwriter-publisher will pay the top tax rate, somewhere north of 35 percent. Don't forget to add in 15 percent or more self-employment tax.

Rep. Ron Lewis thinks this is unfair. It is also important to note that nearly 10 percent of the entire Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike, co-sponsored this important legislation -- not just one Kentucky congressman!

America's very first professional songwriter, Stephen Foster, who after visiting the commonwealth as a child wrote "My Old Kentucky Home," died, literally, with 39 cents in his pocket. These lawmakers know this is valid legislation that songwriters have deserved for decades. They just want to ensure that future Stephen Fosters are treated as well as corporations.

KENT BLAZY

Fayette County, Ky.

JERRY CHESNUT

Member, the Kentucky Music Hall of Fame, Harlan County, Ky.

RON HELLARD

Woodford County, Ky.

JAMES DEAN HICKS

Nelson County, Ky.

LISA PALAS

Harrison County, Ky.

ALAN RHODY

Jefferson County, Ky.

NORRO WILSON

Allen County, Ky.

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Sorry for taking up so much space, but that letter needs to be preserved and I think it's an important issue.

Don Krider

[Paulie Mississippi]

A very interesting read Don...

[Don_Krider]

The Nashville Songwriters Association International has full details of the legislation, which has been floating around since 2004!

Those details are at:

http://www.nashvillesongwriters.com/news..._key=1143297575

The bill is H.R. 2594 in the U. S. House of Representatives (introduced by Rep. Ron Lewis, R-Ky.) and the bill is S. 1100 in the U. S. Senate (introduced by baseball great and U. S. Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky).

It's an election year --- probably the only year elected officials actually read our cards and letters!

Don

[Jeff]

This isn't directly related, but, somewhat relevant in this thread. I have been wondering this for a few years now. As far as songwriters or publishers who own a song or catalog, who, of course, should receive royalties every time their song is played, used, or sold, is it not true, that, at this stage, with the computerized tracking of songs at ASCAP, and BMI, that more of what's actually due (legally and contractually) is being paid to the rightful owners (aside from pirate downloading, obviously), then the 60's though 80's?

[Eric Carmen]

The only flaw in the article, Don, is it presumes the publisher and/or record label accounted to you properly in the first place and you actually RECEIVED the appropriate royalties. Often, that is not the case and the writer ends up suing for years, just to try to get whatever money he actually should have already received. Because the labels and publishers are large and wealthy, they can afford lawyers who string you along for years taking depositions, filing motions etc. while the unpaid songwriters try to find someone to represent them on a contingency and wit it out. It's a totally stacked deck. ec

[Eric Carmen]

That should have been "wait it out." ec

[Don_Krider]

Thanks for commenting, Eric. I thought that the songwriters' letter to the editor was interesting and your comments certainly add to the case against the corporations. Hard to know if any legislation will help out or not by the time the lawyers put loopholes in it.

Don

[mannoman]

Now I'm REALLY glad I can't write worth a lick. I'd be destitute pursuing the dream.

However, I fully understand the personal fulfillment one must get from the creative process, the pursuit of artistic expression and bringing one's idea to life.

[Raspbernie]

Eric (and others who are wondering),

If you click on that little icon of the "pencil and paper" on the header of a post you made it'll allow you to edit and make changes. This feature is available for 30 minutes after adding a post so that you can fix typos or rewrite things after reading them if you'd like.

Bernie

[darlene]

Up until he died in that plane crash, Jim Croce was trying unsuccessfully to basically be PAID AT ALL! He got just about zilch. It was always "the big paycheck's comin' after this tour, this gig, this song..."

His widow, Ingrid, finally successfully sued for a portion of what was due him AFTER his death. How sad. Unfortunately, these stories are much more prevalent than anyone knows. And they go on and on.

--Darlene

[Travis]

I believe Howard Kaylan and Mark Volman of the Turtles and Flo & Eddie fame used to teach a course at UCLA on the business of being a rock musician. Evidently they were screwed out of massive amounts of money and decided to try to educate some of the new wave of entertainers as to how to ATTEMPT to avoid the pitfalls of the biz. But I'm sure the record label weasels are always thinking one step ahead.

[darlene]

Then there's the quagmire created by the person who registers the song with BMI being the "writer of record, who may not be the holder of the copyright," or words to that effect as explained in the BMI disclaimer.

A songwriter may find out that his/her works are listed with BMI as being written by someone else because the publisher called it "work for hire" or the songwriter somehow lost his/her rights to those works through other technicalities. My heart goes out to those who have had bad experiences. I have wished for years that some kind of legislation would prevent this stuff from happening.

--D

[hudathunk]

EC, are you intimating that there are unscruplous people who will exploit a person's ignorance or unwillingness to be personally accountable for their well-being, under the guise of "art"? :)Hmmm....I believe that. However, is it possible that musicians as a sub-species allow right-brain thinking to cloud their much-needed left-brain thinking in these matters once in a while, or that the disturbing quest to validate one's existence by becoming "famous" overrules any financial sensibilities and the little voice in one's mind that sez "Watch out..."? ....

Anyway, the time for change has finally arrived..it's a whole new world out there for artists. DIY self-empowerment is there for the taking.

[VAB5]

It is amazing sometimes to see what "sells". But then again some good ones do slip through and make it big. Things are cyclical...as I think several people have pointed out, the new delivery streams should institute justice. And we can pull whatever we want, rather than being pushed crap.

If you don't have it, I highly recommend satellite radio. We're getting exposed to so many new artists, and we can simply go get 'em from iTunes. No more middle man making our decisions for us.

[skip from st.paul mn]

I think that Mr. Carmen's comments are well illustarated in his the book, Marathan Man. All sorts of stuff that went on with his great band and his hall of fame solo career. All the great ones had their individual battles, most noteworthy John Fogerty. I think Mellencamp had a law suit to get rid of the "Couger" name. Fogerty went 20+ years without the ability to sing his songs, and now he is back at Fantasy. Eric, just keep this thing going as you have, obviously, many fans and friends are out here.

I just bought my daughter a CD, High School Musicals. Apparently, according to Good Morning America on Friday, it is #1 on Billboard. The piece also contained fragments about "does this get us back to wholesome?" Total pop, the theme song sounds like what you have always wanted (at least solo) to do in your brillient career.

[skip from st.paul mn]

Sorry Bernie, will get the typos out per your instructions.

[LobsterLvr]

Actors have SAG and AFTRA to protect their rights as 'artists'. Musicians who play for tv, movies, and theater are in unions. While I've never heard of a 'writers' union I wonder if one exists, or has ever been attempted? It sure might go a long way in protecting songwriters' rights, rites, and income.

Dave

[darlene]

The unions don't seem to have much influence on this kind of stuff--they don't even get into it.

I'm in a teacher's union, and we're always being told that "past practice," or the same thing having happened before means one has to put up with it. I've even been told by my union president that a supervisor can LIE on a teacher's evaluation, and it's not against the law!

--D

[LobsterLvr]

I just 'googled' to see if there is a writers union...and there is. They've got poets, journalism, novelists, cartoonists, biztech writers, etc, all listed....but 'songwriting' isn't there. Probably just as well. If it's anything like Darlene's teacher's union, every song would sound the same. (and we thought sampling was bad now!!!)

Dave

[skip from st.paul mn]

With the statement earlier, I should have put Burton Cummings with the group of hall of fame, or should be, members. Mr. Cummings I would guess (Mr. Krider please help), sold more then most of the recent inductees in the "Hall."

Don, could you verify the sales? And could that be verified by 70's vs 2000's standards. Also, please advise with regard to the Box Tops issue raised a few weeks ago.

Thanks, Skip

[Don_Krider]

Skip, I'll post a reply to your Burton Cummings/Box Tops question in the "Cruissin' Music" section so I don't interfere with this thread's topic.

Don

[mamacote]

......the music business(and the entertainment business overall) is rife with snake-oil salesmen/charlatans/hood-winkers and assorted criminals passing themselves off as managers/agents/talent scouts/etc with no qualifications........a bit of moxy and some fast talk are all that's required............just think, if it weren't for the music business, a lot of the execs would be in prison........