Do You Dare Play The Eric Influence Game?

[Trindy]

Hmmm, Brian Mac. I guess you could say there is a resemblance there. But I would say that it is probably less than the resemblance between "My Sweet Lord" and "He's So Fine."

[bahoodore]

Pour le record....I never said brian wilson write crappy middle 8's...I simply stated that he didn't write them often. Some wriers use bridges in abundance....Brian Wilson was not one of those writers.

[marvin]

Brian Mac, the Sayer song "More Than I Can Say" is a cover. The original was done in the 1960's, so you could say that Sting's "Every Breath" is the copy.

Marvin

[Trindy]

You know, reading all this last night, I thought Brian Mac was saying that EBYT was a ripoff of ILYMTICS, not vice versa...but now I see he IS saying vice versa...which is indeed ridiculous, because the Sayer song is older even if it doesn't go back to the '60s (I remember his '70s version). So the question is, as I originally thought, did Sting copy? I say "No"...or at least the argument is weak.

[darlene]

Does it even matter anymore?

--D

[Brian Mac]

I can't believe you all have even heard ILYMTICS!

I WAS saying that Sting "borrowed" from the earlier song. What I didn't realize, and what Marvin pointed out is that the Leo Sayer tune was a cover to start with. Thanks Marv. Still doesn't change the incredible similarity. I can sit down at the piano and sing both songs to the same chords...

Bahoo, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I was thinking off the top of my head to some of my BW favorites,and they all had middle eights all the way back to "Little Surfer Girl." "Sail on Sailor," "God Only Knows," "Good Vibrations," "Add Some Music To Your Day" "Heroes & VillianS," "Do it Again'... many others had them. Sometimes he sneaks them in at the beginning like "Be true to your School" or at the end like "Breakaway."

Maybe we define "middle eight" differently. I think of it as any dissonent section of a song that appears only once and has nothing in common with the verse or chorus. Wilson was always sneaking these things in everywhere. Hey, we both love his music. That's what really counts!

[darlene]

Indeed!

--D

[marvin]

Brian Mac most of us are in our 40's so we would certainly recall a major hit like "More Than I Can Say", which was Sayer's follow-up to "When I Need You." The original version of "MtICS" was recorded by Bobby Vee.

Marvin

[darlene]

Oh, NOW I remember it. I don't remember too many things by Bobby Vee, but I remember that one. I had good old Leo's album. I used to love "I was just a boy..." and "When I Need You." It's funny. I totally forgot about Leo Sayer, till now.

--Darlene

[Brian Mac]

Marvin, I think you have a staggering amount of musical knowledge stored in your memory banks.

[marvin]

Thanks Brian Mac. Too bad that's all that's stored there.

Marvin

[darlene]

Marvin, Don't put yourself down! You really have an amazing knowledge. There isn't much you haven't heard, or heard of.

--D

[Jerry]

I’m going to switch gears here a little bit... “Tin Soldier†and “Afterglow†by The Small Faces featuring Steve Marriott are two songs that clearly influenced Eric’s vocal and writing style.

[Jeff]

I’m going to switch gears here a little bit... “Tin Soldier†and “Afterglow†by The Small Faces featuring Steve Marriott are two songs that clearly influenced Eric’s vocal and writing style.

And, boy, do I really hear that in "I Can Hardly Believe you're Mine" -- they outdid the SF on that one, but clearly an homage

[AnniekNY]

OK - what about the infamous "I Want A New Drug" by Huey Lewis and the News versus "GhostBusters Theme" by Ray Parker, Jr. lawsuit?

THAT was blatent and obvious. And Parker lost bigtime.

I find that there are certain songs I hear every day that, at some point, trigger a musical memory of another song. The most annoying part of my brain is that the memory STAYS inserted in the song!!!

Speaking of middle eights - here's a question for Eric and other singer/songwriters:

in concert, night after night, is there ever an impulse to change/augment a solo from the recorded version?

My ear would expect to hear the recorded versions; I would expect that, after a time, a new passage might create itself in the composer's head?

Is it that you give us what we expect to hear vs indulging the creative side?

annie

[Zuke]

Parker lost bigtime?

I heard it the other way around.

Huey was the hippest sound at the time and when he decided NOT to do a song for the movie(for whatever reason) the producers just stole HIS sound and Ray did it.

[Dougjack]

Parker lost bigtime?

I heard it the other way around.

Huey was the hippest sound at the time and when he decided NOT to do a song for the movie(for whatever reason) the producers just stole HIS sound and Ray did it.

Here's a URL that tells what happened. Looks like Ray had to pay....

http://launch.yahoo.com/read/news/12054706

[darlene]

They're off and running again.

--D

[Brian Mac]

Annie, It's interesting what you say because it really depends on the artist. Me, I like to hear the band try to re-create the record to the point that I get distressed when they don't try for the high notes or drastically change the arrangements. Guys like Mccartney and Raspberries seem to agree with the you and me and stay pretty true. But just tell that to a Grateful Dead fan. They want to hear it different EVERYTIME they play it. Dylan is famous for changing the arrangements so drastically that sometimes you don't recognize the song. Marvin could explain better, but it all seems to come down to the band and the fan.

MAC

[marvin]

Mac you explained it just perfectly.

The Dead are renown for their live improvisational jams, as are other bands like the Allman's and Phish. Whereas in the case of bands like Raspberries, Beatles or Beach Boys, when you've got a 3 minute pop classic, you stick to the tried and true.

Having said, this those of you who have seen McCartney in concert, know that his "Sgt Pepper Reprise" goes on for much longer than the recorded version.

Marvin