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Badfinger to play with Raspberries in Waukesha!


Razzy

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A quick synopsis for the uninitiated:

The original Badfinger band was Pete Ham, Mike Gibbins, Tommy Evans, and Joey Molland. Joey is an original member as much as Ringo is an original member of The Beatles. As The Iveys, the band had an Apple album in 1968 that was released in a few European countries (Not the US or UK). Joey joined the band in 1969. In early 1970, Apple released "Magic Christian Music" which included the three songs the band did for the soundtrack of that film, a few new songs, and a bunch of stuff from The Ivey's album "Maybe Tomorrow". By that point, Joey had joined and the band had changed their name to Badfinger and so the album was released under that name but it's really an Iveys hodge podge. The first real Badfinger album is 1970's "No Dice". The stylistic differences between The Iveys and Badfinger are very pronounced.

Much as I hate to contradict Badfinger Barb, I don't think this is entirely correct. The Magic Christian Music album features Pete Ham, Tom Evans, Mike Gibbins and a guy named Ron (I can't recall his last name). I don't know if Joey is on any of its tracks, but I do know that he's not credited on the album (whereas Ron is).

Most people would not say "Ringo was an original member of The Beatles." They would note that Pete Best played hundreds of gigs as The Beatles' drummer before being fired and replaced by Ringo. Badfinger may not have played as many, but they did play with Ron as a member before Joey joined. That makes Joey "not an original member" in my book.

Joey has done some good work on his various solo albums, but personally I'm not real interested in going to see him and a bunch of hired hands play "No Matter What" in the key of G instead of A. Joey has been doing this since at least the 1980s, when I saw him do it on Ralph Emery's show on The Nashville Network.

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To confuse/clarify even more, the Magic Christian album is mostly re-released "Iveys" songs from their 1st album...Pete,Mike,Tom and Ron Griffiths...Then, I beleive, three more songs were done for the "Magic Christian" movie soundtrack...Come and get it,Carry On Till Tomorrow, and Rock of All Ages......These were released as part of the new and 1st Badfinger album...Joey did notplay on any of those three tracks...Griffiths was replaced by Molland and Evans switched to bass...So, technically, there were three "New" songs released by the Iveys on the 1st Badfinger album...As for Joey, a lot of people knock him, but he has always been a VERY pleasant and accomadating guy...I understand the fact that he is the only Core member left, but he carries on anyway and keeps the Badfinger flame alive...It is very rare these days to go to a performance of a splintered up band and here them play selections from other members of the original group...In my humble opinion, the N.Y. Yankees did not stop to exist after Babe Ruth died...They just went out and played with new members...Not necessarily the same, but the analogy, I think is valid...You just go on and try to make a living the best you can...

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To confuse/clarify even more, the Magic Christian album is mostly re-released "Iveys" songs from their 1st album...Pete,Mike,Tom and Ron Griffiths...Then, I beleive, three more songs were done for the "Magic Christian" movie soundtrack...Come and get it,Carry On Till Tomorrow, and Rock of All Ages......These were released as part of the new and 1st Badfinger album...Joey did notplay on any of those three tracks...Griffiths was replaced by Molland and Evans switched to bass...So, technically, there were three "New" songs released by the Iveys on the 1st Badfinger album...

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From what I understand, Joey bought the rights to the name Badfinger many years back...And Mike, while it is true that other groups members sing songs that where hits by other members of the group, Molland performs from the whole catalougue, including many non-hits written by the other members...

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Quote:
Much as I hate to contradict Badfinger Barb, I don't think this is entirely correct. The Magic Christian Music album features Pete Ham, Tom Evans, Mike Gibbins and a guy named Ron (I can't recall his last name). I don't know if Joey is on any of its tracks, but I do know that he's not credited on the album (whereas Ron is).

Most people would not say "Ringo was an original member of The Beatles." They would note that Pete Best played hundreds of gigs as The Beatles' drummer before being fired and replaced by Ringo. Badfinger may not have played as many, but they did play with Ron as a member before Joey joined. That makes Joey "not an original member" in my book.

Joey has done some good work on his various solo albums, but personally I'm not real interested in going to see him and a bunch of hired hands play "No Matter What" in the key of G instead of A. Joey has been doing this since at least the 1980s, when I saw him do it on Ralph Emery's show on The Nashville Network. [/QB]

Everything I posted is 100% correct. I'm not sure what you think you are contradicting me on but you have posted many inaccuracies. I never said Joey played on the MCM album. I said the album was a compilation of The Iveys album,three songs the Iveys did for the MCM S/T, and a few new songs. Joey actually is listed on the album even though he didn't play on it because he had joined the band well before the album's release. Ron is not credited anywhere on the album except for as songwriter for the song "Dear Angie".

I would certainly dispute that "Most people would not say "Ringo was an original member of The Beatles." " I'm quite certain most people do consider Ringo an original member of The Beatles. He wasn't the first drummer The Beatles had, but neither was Pete Best. He was the drummer when most everyone came to know the band just as Joey was a member of Badfinger when they came to prominence. With your line of thinking, Dave Smalley isn't an original member of Raspberries! Ron Griffith NEVER performed with Badfinger. NEVER! The band was called The Iveys when Ron performed with them. The first gigs by Badfinger (which were on the BBC in late '69) featured Joey Molland.

Lastly, not that it really matters but Joey performs "No Matter What" in the key of A, not G! If you aren't interested in seeing him, that's your perogative. But please don't try and piss on other folk's parade particularly with grossly inaccurate information.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeM:

Quote:
Much as I hate to contradict Badfinger Barb, I don't think this is entirely correct. The Magic Christian Music album features Pete Ham, Tom Evans, Mike Gibbins and a guy named Ron (I can't recall his last name). I don't know if Joey is on any of its tracks, but I do know that he's not credited on the album (whereas Ron is).

Most people would not say "Ringo was an original member of The Beatles." They would note that Pete Best played hundreds of gigs as The Beatles' drummer before being fired and replaced by Ringo. Badfinger may not have played as many, but they did play with Ron as a member before Joey joined. That makes Joey "not an original member" in my book.

Joey has done some good work on his various solo albums, but personally I'm not real interested in going to see him and a bunch of hired hands play "No Matter What" in the key of G instead of A. Joey has been doing this since at least the 1980s, when I saw him do it on Ralph Emery's show on The Nashville Network.

Everything I posted is 100% correct. I'm not sure what you think you are contradicting me on but you have posted many inaccuracies. I never said Joey played on the MCM album. I said the album was a compilation of The Iveys album,three songs the Iveys did for the MCM S/T, and a few new songs. Joey actually is listed on the album even though he didn't play on it because he had joined the band well before the album's release. Ron is not credited anywhere on the album except for as songwriter for the song "Dear Angie".

I would certainly dispute that "Most people would not say "Ringo was an original member of The Beatles." " I'm quite certain most people do consider Ringo an original member of The Beatles. He wasn't the first drummer The Beatles had, but neither was Pete Best. He was the drummer when most everyone came to know the band just as Joey was a member of Badfinger when they came to prominence. With your line of thinking, Dave Smalley isn't an original member of Raspberries! Ron Griffith NEVER performed with Badfinger. NEVER! The band was called The Iveys when Ron performed with them. The first gigs by Badfinger (which were on the BBC in late '69) featured Joey Molland.

Lastly, not that it really matters but Joey performs "No Matter What" in the key of A, not G! If you aren't interested in seeing him, that's your perogative. But please don't try and piss on other folk's parade particularly with grossly inaccurate information. [/QB]

Barb, I apologize for using the phrase "entirely accurate." In untangling the complicated Iveys/Badfinger story, I may have misconstrued the chronology you posted. I never accused you of stating that Joey peforms on the Magic Christian Music album, but I supposed I implied it by saying "I don't know if he's on any of the tracks."

I also apparently wrongly assumed that, as Ron is credited on a Badfinger album, that he also played gigs with them under that name. I apologize for this error.

And I was wrong when I said Joey is not credited on the Magic Christian Music album. Well, in a narrow sense I'm correct in that he's not *credited* for writing or performing on any of the songs (whereas Ron Griffiths is on one). But I hadn't remembered that Joey is mentioned in the narrative of the liner notes as being a member. And interestingly, he's not pictured on the cover...only Pete, Tom and Mike are.

As for original members of bands, I suppose what I should have said is that most KNOWLEDGEABLE people (such as those who post on this board, i.e., the ones who are talking to each other here) would not say that Ringo was an original member of The Beatles. Yes, the everyday, very casual observer would probably say that he was. But that still doesn't make it a correct statement.

Ringo is the certainly the drummer most associated with The Beatles, just as Dave Smalley is the bassist most associated with Raspberries. But neither is an original member of the band. That IS my line of reasoning, and I'm sticking with it.

And now to be REALLY technical, Pete Best was indeed "the first drummer The Beatles had." John, Paul, George and Stu had been supported by other drummers earlier in their career, but the band was not known as "The Beatles" then -- but rather as The Beatals, The Silver Beetles, The Silver Beatles, etc. By the time they were known simply as The Beatles, Pete Best had already joined as their permanent drummer.

Finally, Joey did indeed play "No Matter What" in the key of G when I saw him on the Ralph Emery Show in the 1980s. There's no doubt about that, I saw it with my own eyes. Now he may well have returned to playing the song in the original key of A subsequently. I guess I was wrong to assume that he continued to play it in G, though you can understand why it's a rational assumption. I know from personal experience that as you age, your high range narrows. So if Joey was able to defy the odds and get back up to A in later years, good for him!

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I toured with Joey Molland on the "30 Years of Rock n Roll Tour" of 1992. I also played a few spot dates with Joey around this time a year ago. The times I worked with Joey, he always played 'No Matter What" in the key of A. In fact, all the songs were in the correct key as the record except 'Day After Day" which was performed in E instead of F like the record. Badfinger in there heyday performed the song in E as well. You can hear that on the Rykodysc live CD that was out in the early 90's. I believe the song was intended to be in the key of E live because of the open guitar chord voicings. Baby Blue {B}, Come & Get It {E}, Day After Day{live- E, STUDIO-F}, Suitcase {E}, I Don't Mind {D}, Without You {F}, Better Days{A transpose to B}, Sometimes {E}. I hope this shed some insite! Glad to help!!!

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Mike, apology accepted. I took exception to the way you worded your previous post but I admire how you recognize your errors. As far as what qualifies as making someone an "original" member of a band, that is obviously a matter of opinion and we just as obviously disagree. As far as I'm concerned, Joey, Ringo, and Dave are original members of Badfinger,The Beatles, and Raspberries respectively.

cheers

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