Rasburied Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Anyone know why Eric didn't participate in the almost Raspberries reunion concert that took place at Cleveland in 1998. I'm aware of the VHS version of the show but I guess a DVD release is highly unlikely. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raspbernie Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 As far as I know he wasn't asked.Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 I'm sure Eric can put that one to bed if he chooses to.For me, my amazement is that Jim participated but later refused to record with Scott, Wally & Dave because of his "only the original four" stance... Was "Refreshed" weak; sure it was... But it wasn't because Scott was there, it was because Eric wasn't ! Now don't get me wrong, I love the fact that the four original (from the albums) Raspberries got back together but I disagree that Dave & Jim are more Raspberrie worthy than Scott & Mike (where ever he may be...) At the risk of alienating anybody and again offering the leaders my word to not be offended and an edited post... Eric alone is Eric. Eric with Wally is Raspberries . When Dave & Jim left and Scott & Mike came on board, the single album in their legacy, Starting Over is still considered the ultimate Raspberries effort by most people... Now I'll grant you that it's possible that Eric and Wally simply steered the vehicle more toward where Jim and Dave had wanted to be, but the fact on vinyl was that Eric Carmen & Wally Bryson & 2 other guys made up Raspberries. That doesn't mean I have any less respect for Jim or Dave as musicians... and I am really glad the band got back together... and I don't mean to hijack this thread, it's just my 2 cents that was inspired by the thread... I've said this before and I'll probably say it again, I love the 'berries but Scott has as much right to be there as any of them... but in truth, Wally & Eric and two studio guys could effectively be Raspberries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasburied Posted May 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 I don't know why Refreshed was released under the Raspberries Banner when it isn't the follow up to Starting Over. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Mac Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 I hate to admit that I agree with most of what Paulie said. I just didn't think anybody would have the balls to say it here. Including me.I don't agree that Raspberries could be Eric and Wally and 2 studio guys. Scott and Michael were very carefully chosen, and Scott is a major talent on his own, and just compliments Eric better than anyone could have imagined. THAT'S why Starting Over wound up being the masterpiece that it is. That and Eric's growing maturity as a songwriter and continued frustration with the music business.It always amazed me that the other guys never seemed to grasp the fact that Eric was THE creative force behind Raspberries. Talent like that doesn't grow on trees. Without him and Wally, there is no band. He never seemed to (and still doesn't obviously) get the respect he deserves from the others.That half baked reunion disc proves it...MAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Mac Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Everyone always talks about what a "control freak" Eric is, and yet he allowed the others to put out "Refreshed" and wished them all the luck in the world. I have no doubt he could have blocked its release had he wanted too.I would go see a Raspberries show with Eric and Wally and ANY of the other four.Without Wally though, I stay home and wait for the next EC solo show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris hess Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 really good stuff written here!!! i think we all need balls when it comes to our true feelings(a lost art nowadays)..well said,respectfully stated!!!lol.chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Personally, I thought the '98 show was pretty damn good under the circumstances (namely, very little rehearsal)....and what shortcomings it had (other than obviously not having Eric there) were due to the fact that the 3 originals and Scott simply didn't have (or take) the time to play together and rehearse enough. Scott, Wally, and Dave have written (and sung) more than enough excellent material to pull off a great show if prepared properly...and NO, it wouldn't be as great as if they had Eric there....but I think that goes without saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggsherby Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 I agree with Paulie and Brian...but at this point in time (30 years after the fact), I'm not so sure that Eric with the Overdubs only would have been a pretty darn good "Raspberries" show!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlene Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Both batches of Berries were not just great, they were phenomenal. Eric's vision for Raspberries no doubt led him to "hand pick" Scott and Michael, and I would bet he and Wally absolutely agreed on both of them. Eric indeed has a vision, but he and Wally seem to have always had this "telepathy" thing going, just from what I've always observed at gigs. It's like they think as one musical mind, so I'm sure they had the same vision. That said, the two bands were different from each other. Both were beyond fantastic, with no reservations. As Eric himself said, by the time "Starting Over" came out, they were more experienced in recording and the second band reaped that reward. I loved the second band, but the first batch of Berries is what hooked me in the first place, and it's my favorite. I love Scott's voice and Michael's drumming, but I just love the vocal blend of the first batch more. It's evident that most people on the board prefer one band over the other, but circumstances have it that the originals got back together. Putting that into place is enough of a full time job, as we've seen. Let them do it the way they need to do it. In answer to the "Michael, wherever he is," comment, it's my understanding that Michael, who did Scottish field drumming for awhile, is no longer able to play due to a medical problem. I am terribly sad about this, because he's a dynamite drummer. --Darlene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip from st.paul mn Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Having been at the 98 show, I would agree with the assessments previously provided. Bernie, when we drove to Cleveland we thought it would be Eric performing. McCarl was indeed cool and the real highlight of the (three??) shows. I think Brian's thoughts are accurate in terms of what made the Starting Over LP a classic. Since it is a Sunday evening I will refrain from any further observations regarding Mr. McCarl and his lack of participation in the '05 project. EC did clarify a few weeks back, so I guess it wasn't meant to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Thanks for that insight Dar, I meant no slight with the "wherever he is" comment; the last I had heard he was somewhat MIA. I agree that he is a dynamic drummer; as evidenced by "Hit Record" being included in the compilation CD "Let There Be Drums" a few years back that focused specifically on great drummers and their signature songs.It's only natural for people to prefer one thing or one group over the other; I agree with you that it was these four (Eric, Wally, Jim, Dave) that hooked me on the 'Berries as well. And I do seem to recall reading that Eric and Wally both met with and agreed to bring Scott onboard after Dave and Jim's departure; Mike's inclusion was a joint agreement as well... As for an earlier comment about having the balls to post this; honesty shouln't require balls or bravery... and as long as we remain respectful and tactful in our opinions it's unlikely that anybody should find offense with what we say... They might not agree with us, but the beauty is that within the confines of conversation all views are welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlene Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Paulie, I knew you meant no slight and I hope you didn't think my quoting you did. It's so easy to read non-existent emotions into e-mails, and it's my boss' favorite way to communicate! Of course, he words his so that no one can misconstrue his put-downs. From me, though, he gets them right back! --Dar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popdude Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 pauliemississippi said: Was "Refreshed" weak; sure it was... I disagree...I didn't think REFRESHED was weak at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Popdude, while it was great to hear something (especially from Dave) after all those years, the CD was both too short and really not as good as Wally's work with Sittin' Ducks or Scott's solo stuff... but it was certainly better than nothing and in the day gave us all hope that someday, someway the "real" Raspberries (with Eric) would find a way to get together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early Wynn Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 As usual I find my self agreeing with Paulie on pretty much every point. It would have been pretty cool to see Scott on bass and Dave on guitar on the 2004/2005 reunion. That way maybe there would have been a larger sampling of songs from "Starting Over" on the tour - like "All Through the Night", "I Can Hardly Believe You're Mine", "Cry", and "Rose Colored Glasses." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popdude Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Popdude, while it was great to hear something (especially from Dave) after all those years, the CD was both too short and really not as good as Wally's work with Sittin' Ducks or Scott's solo stuff...Again, I disagree....I feel that Dave's tracks and Scott's tracks (especially Scott's tracks) ranked right up there with any of their solo work. They also benefitted from having Wally's ace guitar work on them. Too short? Sure...but it was an EP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Mac Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Skip, I missed the thread where Eric commented on Scott via the 05 tour. Could you point me to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donmand Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 I was at the Odeon show in 1998. Just dug out the ticket stub: Belkin & Bud Ice present: Scott McCarl - Odeon Club July 18, 1998. No metion of Raspberries on the ticket. Ticket price: $9.00.There's a story to tell how Scott, Wally, Dave and Jim played a set that night. Which eventually became know as "Berries off the Vine" and the so called Raspberries Reunion (without Eric). Stay tuned...Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 I'm anxious to hear that story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raspbernie Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Don is right. The original show was in support of Scott's GREAT solo CD. When Jim, Wally and Dave got involved, it became a showcase for the non-Eric tunes on the four 'Berries LPs as well. The Cleveland press might have been the ones to push the "almost Raspberries reunion" spin. The opening act was an "almost Choir reunion" (minus Dave Burke). Then Scott came on and did a terrific set of songs from his solo CD, followed by a bunch of Raspberries songs. The show was GREAT and the only negative I could find to say is Scott's decision to close with "Go All The Way" and "Tonight," which he understandably had a hard time singing. In keeping with the theme of the show (the non-Eric songs showcase) I would have been happier had they played "Party's Over" last and then "Play On" as an encore. But that's a minor quibble. Up until that night I had never seen the Raspberries perform live and seeing four of 'em on stage at the same time made me feel real fortunate to be there.Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 The only negative about that show for me (and no, I wasn't there, but I grabbed a VHS copy of it in fairly short order afterwards), was the rather ragged backing vocals on some of the Raspberries songs, which I wrote off to lack of rehearsal/lack of playing and singing together for so long. I thought the set list was excellent, with performances for the most part pretty damn good. I even liked the closing medley (Intro and outro of GATW book-ending I Wanna Be With You and Tonight, if I recall), as it was interesting hearing Scott's take on those old classics.I thought at the time - this is the closest we'll ever get to seeing the Raspberries together again.....boy, was I (thankfully) wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Like JohnO, I was not there, but I too quickly ordered the VHS. And to add fuel to the "almost" Raspberries fire, the producers (Titan Records) of the video had emblazoned the word "RASPBERRIES" in flashing letters when the "fab" four started playing together... (I'm guessing we got the same tape John)It opened with Wally accompanying Jesse and then the Sittin' Ducks did a couple of numbers, and then Scott came in for a few before Dave and Jim made their appearance.After the music there was some behind the scenes of the rehersal sessions... including a glimpse at Wally's sense of humor... when he learns that there had been a photo-shoot without him, he shouts "That's it! I quit! I'm going back to Ricky!" (to which a voice is heard saying "As if he'd have you..." and another female voice (Wally's wife?) reminding him to "be nice." Wally then is shown flashing a peace sign and swearing nothing-but-love for Eric! It's a great peek behind the scenes! It's a pretty good tape; especially for those who didn't get to go and had never seen 'Berries live. (Like Me!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Yep, agree with Paulie....I think the Raspberries reference was played up to the hilt by the producers of the tape of the show...as well as the show's MC during the show. Nobody saw fit to point out early in the show that an almost-Choir (with Margolis & Klawan in the Sitin' Ducks) played earlier that night. But then again, an "almost-Choir" show on tape isn't likely to generate as much interest as an "almost-Raspberries" show - even if it was originally intended as Scott's showcase.Speaking of whom....is Mr. McCarl totally out of the music biz....or is he ever likely to re-surface? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Mississippi Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Last I heard about Scott was that he was driving an airport bus! I consider that to be a tragedy... a horrible waste of musical talent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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