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Clive is still, well, Clive :-)


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As always, a great read, Eric! When you first started communing with us, I would comment that you had just added a new chapter to 'Marathon Man'; fact is, what you've written to date is enough for a whole new book! Can't even begin to tell you how great it's been happy Thanks!! Kirk.

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Tommy,

Regardless of what the "Continue the Strory" thread is, the comment you made was unquestionably irrelevant.

Bernie

I can agree with that. My comment was "irrelevent". Guilty as charged. No crime last time I checked and certainly not worth being called a smart a## amongst other things.

My PM box as well as my E-mail box have been filled today with letters of support which I appreciate very much but no apologies. Oh well. I'll clean out some room and hope for the best when I come home tonight. Got to get ready now. Going over my cousin's house to see the De La Hoya / Mayweather fight in his Home Theater. It'll be a pleasure to watch punches not thrown at me.

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Well, this thread has certainly been a “page turnerâ€!!

I never realized the music industry was so “cut-throatâ€. It’s astonishing how these musicians can function under all this pressure. Lyrics and music have to be written with clear minds. How is that possible when they’ve invested thousand and thousands of their own dollars never knowing if they’ll ever see a profit? They are literally putting their lives in the hands of these egomaniacs knowing that if they don’t measure up, all their hard work and dreams can be over in a blink of an eye! It seem the only way to have a chance in this competitive business is to have a high spirit, believe in yourself, work your butt off and swallow a lot of B.S. along the way.

***********************************************

As for the little TT incident..well.. let’s face it, every message board has their “jokestersâ€. There is one or two in every bunch !! But we need people like this. There are a lot of serious topics discussed on this board and sometimes a one or two line “totally off the topic†post can kind of break up the negativity and put a smile on your face. Knowing Tommy as I do, I really don’t think he meant any disrespect to anyone. He was just being his usual self and doing what he does best...â€pot-stirring†!! Better be careful next time Tunesy..I think you’ve just been added to the list of “choke-holdsâ€!!!

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The good thing about the internet today is that bands can get their songs out all over the world. And with home and project studios today, music can be produced relatively cheaply. The whole downside is getting your songs on the radio and having a shot, and just a shot, to make really big money. The whole economics of recoupment have already been discussed so you know how the big boys operate. But you can control all your music and make some money without getting caught in the big labels web. It's almost like the 50's and 60's, in a way, before the corporations found a way to make all the money and take the soul out of the whole business. I grew up in the 60's a mile from Philly and remember hearing Philly bands in rotation on WFIL, the big AM station. Some went national (Delfonics), some didn't (Brenda and the Tabulations) but each area's radio had a regional flavor to it. That ain't happenin' now (read Clear Channel) except for the internet...

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That's one of the dumbest thing I've ever seen here....Do you think Eric taking the time to share his insights with his fans prevents him from writing songs.And who said he was going to go over that topic again. I seem to remember him giving us the lowdown on Clive Davies. How many songs do think he missed cranking out in that hour.Eric will probably write new songs when the mood,desire and inspiration hit him.I really doubt that the fact that Eric occasionaly posts at his fansite inhibits his writing.

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I don't think Eric wasted his time at all, and I found it quite interesting to read his thoughts on a subject which affects musicians more than fans realize. There is no job security in this business, and not only that, you have people that supposedly have your back often plotting against you.

And as to him taking the time to write those posts instead of writing a song, that's another thing fans don't get. Sure, you can do the Steven King writing gig, and pound away at a computer 8 hours a day, but true inspiration is fleeting and like trying to catch lightning in a jar. I have gone a year sometimes without a song, but other times have knocked out 8 songs in a day. All us knuckleheaded dreamers have a rolodex of riffs in our skull, and by jamming around, sometimes thunder strikes. Keith Richards wrote Satisfaction while sleeping! He woke up long enough to scroll some notes, and boom. I've had songs hit me so hard I've done the same thing, and suddenly had to drop everything and grab my trusty Sony 310, just to get the scratch version so I won't forget. Music is not like any other job. The sum of our experiences is what shapes us and our sound, and it is nearly impossible to just get up and say, "OK, today, I'm writing a hit record".

I understand it may be a hard concept to grasp for people that have to function in a productive way daily, but rockers are pretty much all starry eyed dreamers and layabouts:)Writing also seems to get harder as you start to realize the sum of your efforts may wind up in a trash can somewhere. When you're younger, you have that burning ambition to write the next Born To Run, but after your dreams and ambitions are repeatedly destroyed due to some underhanded chicanery, greed, jealousy or bean counters, it just gets harder and harder to want to share, especially in a music scene dominated by a self perpetuating machine that prizes youth over skill, and looks over talent. That doesn't mean we stop playing, but many talented musicians eventually realize that being the cool dude isn't as important as having a secure life, especially once kids enter the equation. I spent over 10 years away from the industry, after having been in a band, recording 2 indy LPs,which received great reviews, jamming with Joe Walsh, but still continually watching crap bands get signed because they knew or blew somebody in power:)

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Just read thru this thread in its entirety...a tremendous read.

We members of this site are lucky as hell that my favorite artist of alltime, Eric Carmen, shares his insights and knowledge here. I also learn a bunch from MAM, Marvin and others that post and are knowledgable about the industry. And I'm a big fan of Tommy Tunes and what he brings to this site.

Thanks fellas!!

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On the Rhapsody site at http://www.rhapsody.com/playlistcentral/playlistdetail?playlistId=13279761 they have Clive Davis' hand-picked Top 31 favorite songs from Arista, J and RCA Records (at #15, "All By Myself" by Eric Carmen). It's a rather strange list of pop, hip-hop and rock picked in celebration of Clive's 40 years in the music industry.

There's an interesting biography of Clive at http://www.law.harvard.edu/alumni/bulletin/2001/spring/feature_3-1.html which drops the names of some major artists signed by Clive Davis over the years.

But Clive's comments on Eric's investment in "Boats Against The Current" to Crawdaddy magazine (September 1977) at http://www.ericcarmen.com/press/770900a.htm seem to echo what Eric said about Clive earlier:

*****************************************************************

...As it happens, the LP cost $358,000 before final mixing. Eric Carmen chuckles as he takes the heat, reaching for the Dunhills on the coffee table...

...Asked if he was nervous about having invested so much money in the production of this latest album. Davis quipped: "It's his investment, not mine—but he sells a lot of records…I think the FM purists will start to listen to him without seeing him as an AM heavyweight trying to crash their market. Once he has the FM credibility of a Frampton or a Fleetwood Mac, there'll be no complaints about his AM popularity."

*****************************************************************

Don Krider

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This Thread gets my vote for one of the Top 5 EVER at EC.Com. After so many years of settling for biased "interviews" or "soundbites" for a glimpse of what Eric's thoughts might be, how cool is it that we get the info straight from the source? Who would have ever thunk it?

Bravo Bernie. Eric, thanx for that hour. I can assure you it was time well spent. We treasure the posts that you really sink your teeth into the most. Absolutely riveting stuff.

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Frankenberrie, I could not agree with you more. Iv often felt that being or attempting to be a professional musician is like a "Calling". Kinda like the desire to become a Catholic Priest, (even though im not catholic). You essentially give-up much of your life or atleast sacrifice to no-end for your passion, your love. Unfortunately as a musician, you will be poor, the odds will always be stacked against you till you are BROKEN. I cannot speak from experience but I infact have known OH SO many people that have dreamed, tried, worked and tried again only to be frustrated. Eric's revelations bear witness to what many of us could only imagine. Eric is succesful because not only because he is amazingly talented but he has savy, he is very intelligent and was obviously smart enough to protect his personal interests at very critical points in his life as a solo artist. That is a very difficult thing to do and be creative at the same time. Im sure Eric will be the first to tell anyone that despite having some very well charted, succesful HIT records with Raspberries that the money seen wasn't very good and even with national TV appearances I dont think he was walking away with a life's ransom. It takes not only hardwork, talent, TIMING, LUCK and that one big-HIT-single, like ALL BY MYSELF. My husband and I were visiting friends in Manhattan NY about a month ago. We visited a club after dinner and were entertained by a young, extremely talented musician named RUSS FINK www.russfink.com This kid impressed me so much that both My Husband and I got to chatting with him inbetween his Acoustic Sets. Russ was a real charmer. His story is so much like many other young talented kids, Wide-eyed, brimming with ideas, hopes, dreams and he probably couldnt even get arrested, let alone be signed to a record deal, lol. Turns out that Russ Fink is from Cleveland Ohio, who would have guessed. He is a huge RASPBERRIE fan, and absolutely loves Eric's work. When I first heard him sing/play I instantly thought of Marshall Crenshaw. My husband thought Bryan Adams. Either way, Russ Fink is an example of a young talented kid that should be given some type consideration but given the powers-that-be im sure he'll be back in Cleveland within a couple of years. A very familiar scenario.

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Going back to the American Idol / Clive connection... Is it just the American Idol winner who is bound to him for 5 years, or are the others who are in the top 10 committed for 5 years also? I would imagine that there may be some (Clay Aiken, Chris Daughtry, Kimberly Locke, etc..) that might be happy that they weren't the actual winner.

Thanks for your insights on this thread Eric!

Tim

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Yup, as noted above, timing & luck are of the utmost importance, and finding someone you can trust to handle your business is super important too, because no matter how much you make, you have to have the right people watching your back. Ted Nugent, Aerosmith and Cheap Trick, 3 of the biggest 70s bands all had to declare bankruptcy due to mismanagement, and other bands, like the Dictators had to basically sign away their rights to work for 7 years, or pay a judgement to their management of $72,000 each! It's a nutty treadmill. But as my buddy John put it in his song,"It's All For The Love Of Rock & Roll". First line "I don't care about the money, cuz I ain't seen none". There really is no other feeling like when you are onstage and have the crowd in the palm of your hand.

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Tim, the Idols all sign a contract indenturing them for basically life + 20:)Standard to get on the show. One of the people chosen a couple years ago and made it thru the auditions to be on the show actually balked at signing, and was not allowed to appear.It's up to the label whether they wish to give them a release after they are dismissed from the show. Hence all the Idols tours, and the cast CDs. Cowell probably even made money off William Hung somehow!

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Eric, I just got to read the earlier part of this thread. Every one of us (even the "impertinent" ones)are absolutely blown away by your posts. I just love to read them because they're so intelligent, but the "behind the scenes" background and the experiences you give us are amazing and don't ever stop!

Your posts make this place come alive! We're here because of you! Some of us "act up" occasionally, but that doesn't mean they don't find your responses riveting, and they're definitely smart enough to "get it." I know they do. We love them even though they sometimes perversely revel in negative attention.

smile --Darlene

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As I write this note, I’m truly in a quandary as I try to find the words that would adequately express my appreciation for Eric Carmen and his involvement here. The past few months have truly been an intense, emotional time for Eric and for him to generously and thoughtfully continue to share with us, update us and provide insight is absolutely overwhelming. This is unlike any artist, ever.

I've always said I love the insighful and interesting writing of Eric and always appreciated them. Thank you hardly seems sufficient, but it’s all I'm left with. THANK YOU so very much! Scott

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Every one of us (even the "impertinent" ones)are absolutely blown away by your posts. I just love to read them because they're so intelligent, but the "behind the scenes" background and the experiences you give us are amazing and don't ever stop!

Your posts make this place come alive! We're here because of you!

smile --Darlene

this is why we luv darlene... and of course the MAIN MAN Eric Carmen.........

It's all part of evolution and a great site that's open to deeper discussion which respects the artist it represents, while trying to push a few envelopes....

Rock on.....

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also....

long after all of us are either toast or that long dreamt of generation way back when, there will be the music of Eric Carmen & the Raspberries...

Clive might be this dude who was part of this ephemeral burst of greed of corporate America, but Eric & The 'Berries will remain the definitive burst of magic they always were/are....

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