Clive is still, well, Clive :-)

[Raspbernie]

CLARKSON SCRAPS NEW ALBUM?

Pop star KELLY CLARKSON has reportedly scrapped her new album after label bosses weren't impressed with the record. The 25-year-old singer suffered a scathing attack from Sony BMG chief Clive Davis after he heard the new tracks, reports British newspaper the Daily Star. A source at the record company tells the paper, "It was an extraordinary presentation. Clive was absolutely merciless in his criticism of Kelly. "She's one of the biggest priorities on the label and her new songs were savaged." The American Idol winner has been working on the follow up to 2005s best selling album Breakaway for 18 months, but has reportedly gone back to the studio to work on new tracks.

- - - -

Kelly reportedly co-wrote all of the songs herself instead of relying on "hit makers" involved with her previous albums.

Bernie

[wallytosa]

That is not good news, I was really looking forward to her new album. I really love her voice and have been waiting for this album, especially because I heard she was co-writing the songs. That Clive Davis..........arghhhh!!!!

paula....razzy, had to add my name as I notice my dear hubby forgot to sign off........double arghhhhhh.

[Paulie Mississippi]

Not that I'm a paying customer of the Idol Tripe, but:

I too was hopeful for young Kelly, who I had heard was showing great promise and reports were taht some of her co-written songs were quite good.

Isn't American Idol becoming something of this decade's version of "The Monkees" with non-musically talented people mixing with musically talented people but their packaging, their product, and their fate being controlled by Don Kirshner/Clive Davis?

How long I wonder are these "Idols" under contract with AI/FOX before they can sign elsewhere and become "real musical artists?"

[sllvnbil]

There you go! The state of today's 'American Idol" influenced record industry,,,,,"SHUT UP,,,SING WHAT WE TELL YOU TO SING,, LAY OFF THOSE COOKIES AND GET ON THE TREADMILL!!!!!"

[Eric Carmen]

And for those of you who might not be aware of exactly what the ramifications of Clive's "rejection" of her 18 months of studio time, session musicians, producers, engineers, tape costs and all the other expenses involved with recording translates into, here's the bottom line. Kelly just spent a whole lotta money, HER MONEY, that will all have to be recouped by sales of her next record, before she sees her first nickel. And NOW she has to go back into the studio and spend a whole lotta her money again (which will ALSO have to be recouped) in order to try to make a record that Clive likes, or he simply won't promote it. To clarify, let's say Miss Clarkson spent three hundred thousand dollars to record the "rejected record." And now she has to go spend another three hundred thousand dollars to make the record Clive likes. That means her record sales have to earn at least SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS before she makes a cent. And that's not even figuring in the cost of a couple of good videos, which could easily double that number. e

[Bessieboo]

Please excuse my ignorance, How does a person hold that kind of power?

Do the artists sign over all their rights and control?

If She is paying for the recording, shouldn't she have more controll? Could she walk away from Clive and work with or for someone else?

[marvin]

Bessie there is a very long history involved here. Suffice to say, in Clive's mind the heirarchy is as follows:

1. God

2. Clive Davis

Marv

[Bessieboo]

Why would anyone work with him?

[MAM]

Man, does that SUCK! And, there just ain't no way it should have to cost that kind of money to make a record. That's ridiculous. The "big" boys have WAY too much power! ARRRRGGHH!

[Paulie Mississippi]

Bessie there is a very long history involved here. Suffice to say, in Clive's mind the heirarchy is as follows:

1. God

2. Clive Davis

Marv

My guess is that when it comes to the music biz, Clive's list is:

1. Clive Davis

2. God

[pierson]

That means her record sales have to earn at least SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS before she make a cent. And that's not even figuring in the cost of a couple of good videos, which could easily double that number. e

And this acutely points out Clive's lack of true intelligence and business acumen...

IF he was a genius, he'd have her do demos at a home studio until he felt there were enough top quality songs to make into an amazing album & then drop the big wad of cash into it... (whether or not he has the insight to hear a hit single when it's in demo-form may be the problem, too)

what this does prove is that he's the wasteful idiot he's always been....

and yes, god is below him... delusion little greaseball that he is (not god, clive)

[Bessieboo]

I understand that he is a huge force in the music industry. Clive is a man who is getting up in years, you all make him sound like He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, Voldemort from Harry Potter.

Does he control the industry so completely that there are no competitors? It sound like a monopoly

[darlene]

I was going to say that Clive thinks he's above God, but Paulie beat me to the punch. He is absolutely wasteful, and arrogant (Clive, not Paulie).

Unfortunately, Bessie, if you want to get somewhere, you have to work with people like Clive. And you play with your money first, and play and play until THEY'RE satisfied, then you have to pay, pay, pay back and you stop when THEY say you've satisfied the debt. (Probably LONG after it's been satisfied.) All that, and you're lucky if you get anywhere NEAR what they owe you in royalties. The same sad experience Raspberries and a million other musicians have gone through. Nasty, biz, the music industry.

I think we've all ascertained before that Clive doesn't have much sense.

--Darlene

[pierson]

Does he control the industry so completely that there are no competitors? It sound like a monopoly

hardly... and his world is shrinking quickly with the power of online music distribution...

lots of musicians have opted out of the major label route to avoid that nightmare scenario which has been a harsh reality for many... but of course they may have lost an opportunity to have the mega distribution that could've broken them to a wider audience...

[Paulie Mississippi]

I was going to say that Clive thinks he's above God, but Paulie beat me to the punch. He is absolutely wasteful, and arrogant (Clive, not Paulie).

--Darlene

Thank you so much for that clarification Darlene!

[marvin]

..and yet he's made a zillion dollars, had success with a zillion different artists??? What gives?

Marv

[aussietime]

is he a perfectionist?

[Eric Carmen]

Clive has got a great set of ears for a hit pop song. He's been in the music biz since the early 1960's. By the time I recorded my first solo tracks for Epic Records in 1968, Clive was already the head of Columbia Records, arguably the biggest and most powerful label going. Next year it will be FORTY YEARS since I tried to badger my way into his office at Columbia with an acetate of "Light The Way" in my hand (to no avail). A couple of years later he walked into Columbia and was told he was fired, and given a few hours to clean out his desk and vacate the building. He had thrown a very expensive bar mitzvah for his son and charged it to the label. He actually didn't do anything that the rest of the execs weren't doing, just maybe a bit "bigger." He left, humiliated, wrote a book about his life and then went looking for a new label........

[Eric Carmen]

He found one that was floundering called Bell Records, and, with the help of some friends at Columbia Pictures, bought it and dropped almost everyone from the roster. He kept Barry Manilow and Melissa Manchester. Then he flew to Cleveland, came to my apartment and I sat at my piano and played him about three quarters of my first solo album. He offered me a contract the next day. The new label was renamed Arista and Barry, Melissa and I all had monster first hits. Clive was vindicated. Unfortunately, all three hits were ballads and Arista became pegged as a "ballad" label. Radio program directors form opinions about labels based on what kind of records the promo guys bring in for them to hear. Some labels bring in Springsteen, Dylan and Blood, Sweat and Tears, and aquire the reputation of having "cutting edge" artists. Other labels bring in Barry Manilow, Air Supply and Whitney Houston. The program directors start to look forward to hearing product from some labels more than others......

[Eric Carmen]

Somewhere along the way, Clive aquired a new head of promotion who might just be the greatest promotion man of all time. His name was Don Ienner. (Yep, Jimmy's little brother). Where Jimmy was all smiling, charming warmth, Donnie was screaming at the top of his lungs, threatening, cursing and scary. But boy was he effective. Without divulging the (ahem) ways that record companies get their top artists played, let's just say that you might be able to find some parallels in "waste management" if you catch my drift. Well, Arista was bouncing along and Clive was making a whole lotta money and then we reached the age of mergers and aquisitions. And big German powerhouse BMG bought Arista. Everything went well, for a while, but then Don Ienner left to go and head Columbia (now Sony) Records. Arista faltered a bit and the Germans OUSTED CLIVE FROM HIS OWN LABEL! Yep, they brought in L.A. Reid to head up Arista and forced Clive out. The industry was stunned....

[Eric Carmen]

But L.A. Reid spent a whole lotta money signing artists and making records, and, even though they were successful, the bottom line didn't look too good for the stockholders so BMG canned L.A Reid a couple years later. They gave Clive a new boutique label (which he named 'J' Records), and once again Clive was off and running. And by this time, Clive understands EXACTLY what you have to do to make a record a hit. So J Records has hits, and once again, Clive is vindicated, because in the entertainment industry, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. PERIOD. And Clive makes money. Clive is money in the bank. So BMG is happy again, and Clive is sort of happy again, and everything is going pretty well when all of a sudden.....

[Eric Carmen]

...CD sales start to drop. And drop. AND DROP! And the digital world takes hold and the big labels, who totally controlled the game for 70 years are suddenly starting to quietly panic. Their sales are in a tailspin, radio has been taken over by Clear Channel and is programmed by computers in every market and they slowly begin to realize the game has changed and they're losing control. So, with stockholders freaked about the declining sales of CD's, they do the only thing they know how to do. They merge to cut costs. So now Columbia (Sony) and BMG (RCA and Arista) MERGE INTO ONE GIANT LABEL! But who will run the new giant? Will Sony control it, or will BMG? Who will be the boss supreme? The Big Kahuna?.....Donnie or Clive?.......

[Eric Carmen]

Well, you know Mr Davis has learned a thing or three over all these years, and, when the smoke clears Don Ienner and his henchman (and henchwomen) get their walking papers. And right about the same time American Idol takes the country by storm and, as luck would have it, part of the deal the potential "idols" have to make is that for the next FIVE YEARS they will be signed to Simon Cowell's company for management and (ahem) recording. And guess who Simon Cowell makes a deal with to promote and distribute all the "American Idols"? You guessed it, the Clivester! And that's how Kelly Clarkson winds up beholden to the whims of Clive Davis. Pretty amazing, huh? But you gotta give the guy credit. HE'S A SURVIVOR! And with all due respect, he's like the cockroach after the proverbial atomic bomb. He'll still be here when everyone else is gone. And I've gotta tell you, he's a charming guy, they don't come any brighter, and he throws one helluva party! ec

[TOMMY TUNES]

Is it just me or is this thread starting to remind you of Marvin's thread "Continue the Story"?

[Eric Carmen]

Marvin asked, I answered. Would you prefer something more brief, oh impertinent one? ec