A Short History Of The Popular Song , or, Why Today's Music Sucks (Mostly)

[Trindy]

Begging Eric: Please, PLEASE don't go on O'Reilly. Not unless you want to sound like the Old Man on Saturday Night Live saying "In my day..."

And definitely not unless you bring a loofah to defend yourself with. And maybe a falafel too, just in case. Yikes!!!!

[MikeC]

Yep. Those are some of my heroes, Eric, though I was born much later. And guess what, everybody?-The songs that I've listened to these past two years, more than any other, are The Songs Of The Great American Songbook. Also called The Standards. Last year, a friend of mine had come back for Christmas, from studying in England. I decided to give her the biggest treat- lots of music. I knew that she knew nothing about The Standards, and she's in her early twenties. She's conservative, so I knew that I was stepping out, because she is religious, but I thought, "Oh well, she'll find out about some of these things sooner or later". I couldn't hide my self, and I needed to let her see that I like some of her religious, as well as other styles, too. I've met these first two singers who signed her name, Aisha, for me: Steve Tyrell, Renee Olstead(Then 15- yes fifteen. I took my daughter to see and meet her in Pasadena, for a Christmas concert in 2005), Rod Stewart(One from the past, too); The Bee Gees-Number Ones. I bought six CD's. It blew me away when she said, of all the CD's, Rod's latest was her favorite. I really thought it would be The Bee Gee's, or one of Rod's from the past- The rebel-like songs, right there, up front. No mistake about what he's saying, no doubt. The beats, party-like atmosphere, which I like for a change, now and then. And she never heard any of the Standard songs before!

[MikeC]

I should have said that the sixth was a DVD- One Night Only! Rod Stewart Live at Royal Abert Hall. With his past hits, plus The Standards, like Hot Legs, Maggie May Gasoline Alley, Reason To Believe, I Don't Want To Talk About It; Some Guys Have All The Luck.

[darlene]

I just saw a PBS presentation of Rick McKay's "The Golden Age of Broadway," an definitive documentary on what made Broadway in those days great, and "What happened?"

Canned music, special effects, "fluff," etc. was compared against the all-time great actors who weren't miked, the singers and dancers who lived for nothing except to hone their artistry and the comparison of what *was* true talent in those days compared to what is *called* talent (or passes for it) now. The really great music was discussed (Rodgers & Hammerstein, Bernstein's West Side Story, etc.) and the same theme runs through that documentary that has been mulled over here: Kids just aren't getting exposed to the great stuff.

There has never been a better time for Raspberries' and Eric's music!

--D

[ira]

A GREAT music Doubleheader for me-was seeing GREAT rock and pop w/ the Raspberries in July at BB King's and seeing GREAT Broadway (Same neighborhood) a few days later-when I took my son to hear the incredible singing,dancing,and songs,of "Fiddler On The Roof".No "Fluff" here Darlene-just two sides of a GREAT "Musical Coin"-Ira.

[mymooladi]

It scares me when I think of where music is headed. Especially when "It's hard to be a Pimp" wins an award.I worry not so much because of the words (what words?,) but because of the repetition. I hate that!! I hope things turn around because right now Coountry music is turning up the better music right now I think. I don't listen to it but when I hear it at least I can understand the words.

Eric you have a keen understanding of music at all kinds of angles. You never cease to amaze me.

June

[buzzthrust]

Eric, I would tend to agree with your assumptions, but I am sure the founding fathers that you name, abhorred the racket of the Small Faces, The Who, The Kinks, The Beatles, The Byrds and The Beach Boys, in their time.

Rock N' Roll is incestuous. Great "songs" came from the formally trained white bread composers that you have name checked, and all of the black artists who supplied the fuel for the entire British invasion of 1963/1964. The real magic came about when those who appreciated great arrangements met up with the "in your face" blues legends. The combination produced an interesting mix from 1963 onwards. Inspiration comes from everywhere. The ones who can do it, seem to understand this and they conjure up something new from something borrowed. They took chances. What I always appreciated about The Raspberries, was the ability to mix the nuisances of Brian Wilson/Beach Boys with The Who, Small Faces, and The Byrds. The combination or mix, provided a dynamic sound. By 1972, these bands I mention were pretty much passe with the public [except for The Who, I suppose].

I dislike rap, but, I try to understand that the ability to sample the right groove and match it with the right rap, can also be creative. Do I like it? Nope, but I try to have an open mind. I am bothered more by sappy American Idol tripe that continues to try and pass itself off. I guess it is all entertainment.

The other problem, cited by Clive Davis recently, is that record labels can no longer afford to give new artists three albums to develop their sound and fan base. Today, an artists needs to hit top ten out of the box or they are dropped. There is no time to refine or develop an artist.

[pierson]

Quote:

So by your reasoning, All the punk rockers are geniuses because they speed up their covers of classic songs while screaming the lyrics and butchering the original guitar chord progressions?

Wow! That's energy! Where's my herion syringe? [/QB]

Well, if they were on heroin, than there wouldn't be much speed... that's why Sid couldn't keep up with Glen Matlock's stuff....

Energy can be paramount to a song's intensity & power... the Beatles even did this in their early days (they were on speed back in the Hamburg days, so it makes sense)...

not all punk bands mastered it... the Dickies, at times, do sound silly in comparison, but the Ramones remain very high and mighty... never once (on record) losing the song's essence, but empowering it with speed and vitality (i.e. "Let's Dance," "California Sun").

[raspberrywine]

Ira, we went to see Phantom of the Opera. I had some trepidation, thought it might be cornball, but it was fantastic, very moving. Another great songwriter/composer; Lloyd Webber.

[darlene]

That's just it. If the music is great (I love Fiddler and I adore Andrew Lloyd Webber), then the show will most likely be also. Talent seems to seek its own level, and individuals of certain talent or genius will only work with those who produce work of a similar calibre. Again, ALW isn't some guy who just started writing music--he's a classically trained musician. Julian Lloyd Webber, his son, is a fantastic cellist.

That's not to say one has to be a classically trained musician--that's not the case, especially in the realm of jazz and blues (or in any realm, including rock), BUT one DOES have to have TALENT. Yeah, *that* old word. Either one has it or doesn't, and it's sad to see so much "noise" generated by mediocre or totally untalented people winning awards.

--Darlene

[MAM]

Quote: "The other problem, cited by Clive Davis recently, is that record labels can no longer afford to give new artists three albums to develop their sound and fan base."

I have a hard time believing that the "big boys" (sony, etc.)can't afford it. What they probably mean is that the guys in management don't want to give up any of their over the top salary that they don't deserve in the first place. <img border="0" alt="[Rant]" title="" src="graemlins/rant.gif" />

[darlene]

Michael, I agree. We all know what jackals the record companies are and what they will do to try and get away with doing artists out of their fair share.

Herman told me about about (and replayed the DVD) of the Dan Rather interview of The Dixie Chicks when he asked them about their finances with the innocuous question, "You've sold 17 million albums--you must have a lot of money..." Natalie Maines looked dismayed and smiled a nervous smile as she said, "I don't even have a million dollars in the bank." Dan continued with, "You've sold over 17 million albums at about $14 a pop, that's over 200 million dollars worth of records and YOU DON'T HAVE A MILLION DOLLARS?" Suddenly, the light bulb went off inside her head and she looked totally confused as she admitted, "I don't know where all the money goes..." One of the other Chicks also smiled sheepishly as she said, "We see very little of that..."

Right after that The Chicks sued Sony. They were getting about 1% of the 238 million dollar gross Sony was taking in. And they wouldn't even have figured it out without Dan Rather!

Jackals...

--Darlene

[hudathunk]

As with any mass cultural phenomena that can be perceived negatively by individuals outside of the particular event, there can be upsides, sometimes only evident in hindsight. For example, much of the decline of contemporary music lamented here is directly correlated and concurrent with the overall decline of the "lowest common denominator" of what is considered "entertainment" in American society- for that matter, the disappearance of manners, etiquette and accountability....I digress..that said, even though music ain't what it used to be, some of the most innovative and interesting production advances, and clever juxtapositions of seemingly incongruous styles have emerged from these exercises....only to be adopted into other, perhaps more interesting formats, thus broadening the medium. As in: with a little luck, they get applied to actual songwriting......pushing the form of contemporary music ahead.....just a thought.

[Eric Carmen]

From your lips to God's ears. e

[darlene]

And one can hope there will always be those who have both the talent and commitment, as well as innovative qualities, to accomplish the "push," as you put it, to reestablish the standard.

--Darlene

[pierson]

that said, even though music ain't what it used to be, some of the most innovative and interesting production advances, and clever juxtapositions of seemingly incongruous styles have emerged from these exercises....only to be adopted into other, perhaps more interesting formats, thus broadening the medium. As in: with a little luck, they get applied to actual songwriting......pushing the form of contemporary music ahead.....just a thought.

two words: Jon Brion

[Eric Carmen]

Hey Pierson, would you do me a favor? I don't know if you have the time or the inclination but, if perchance you do, I would absolutely love to have you put together a little compilation CD of some of your favorite songs by the artists you've mentioned. It would be very inspirational to hear some new music that contained melodies, intelligent lyrics, structure, wit, great production and clever arrangements that I could sink my teeth into, and you seem to have quite a collection of artists that float your boat. If not a cd, how about a list with specific songs, ranked in order of your preference. e

[pierson]

eric,

u read my mind... i was either gonna ask bernie or tommy a to see if they'd send something to you if i compiled it...

there's definitely some great things out there (especially from 2001, a great "lost" year for independent pop music)... & considering where your roots lie, there's some things i know you'll like...

[Tony Cartmill]

I almost bought a Pernice Bros on Amazon a couple of weeks ago because of Pierson. What's the best Pernice CD to start with?

[pierson]

they are all equally solid....

here's the best way to choose:

Overcome By Happiness: their 1st one-- pretty straight ahead... maybe their most mellow one of all

The World Won't End: #2 ...Bob Allen's fave... I would try this one after you decide you like them

Yours Mine & Ours: #3-- in my opinion their strongest showing... absolutely stunning head to toe, although they do start to explore a little post punk things (Cure-ish acoustic rhythmn guitars, but it hardly gets in the way) this is where I'd suggest anyone to start

Discover A Lovelier You: #4 maybe their most "progressive" one yet... a little more zip in its heel too... no clunkers yet...

[Tony Cartmill]

I'll print this page! Thanks Pierson. Promise no Artful Dodger-like-blown-vocal-chord-screeching vocals?

[Billy K.]

Part of the problem with the music industry is how the budgets and marketing is done......I'll give you an example....Justin Guarini, runner-up from American Idol...his record label was "disappointed" that he sold "only" 144,000 copies of the CD!

To me, selling 144k units of anything is good, be it tubes of toothpaste, or luxury automobiles. Heck, I'd be more than happy to see my own CD sell 10K.

The Guarini example is a strong statement that there is something fundamentally wrong of how the music industry is set up.

[pierson]

I'll print this page! Thanks Pierson. Promise no Artful Dodger-like-blown-vocal-chord-screeching vocals?

no he's much more like this era's colin blunstone

[susana]

Excellent point, BillyK! I haven't thoroughly digested this thread, so my comments may be rehashes...apologies in advance if they are.

BillyK, you are saying what I have said for several years now. Used to be it was about the music, now it's about the music BUSINESS. People are out there now just to make a quick buck and they don't really care about or have an appreciation for the art form.

I agree with Eric's basic premise that what we hear is what we learn from. I'd like to take that a step further and stress that all of this is perhaps influenced even more by our "immediate gratification" society of today. So many people want what they want, and they want it right now. (No, I'm trying to make a bad pun on a 'Berries song - lol.) They don't take the time to learn their craft, they don't take the time to explore their own talents and see where that takes them, they don't take the time to rework and fine tune their material - be it original or covered, they don't take the time to take lessons as needed...I could go on and on. They want to make a record, make it today, and if that doesn't fly (translation: make them lots of money), then they're off to the next get rich quick/career choice.

Unfortunately, the record companies, corporate radio and such feed off of this, and we have examples like the one BillyK cited. That is absolutely why many of us will never hear many of the more promising artists. Given today's economics as a whole, there is a majority of the society that does not have the funding to enjoy satellite radio at all, or on line listening (be it through iPods, performers' sites, etc.) to its fullest. I think Mellie started down this line of thought - this is where the more creative people are going. Stands to reason. If you're creative, you're looking for different outlets in all areas of your life, not just the actual music. They are the people who discover the technological innovations that allow them to distribute their art. Heaven forbid that they do anything highly original and try to make it heard through traditional methods. It will be overanalyzed and tweaked to death. How many times have we talked about that very thing happening to the 'Berries and Eric back in the '70's???

To me the saddest part of it all is the economic aspect I touched on. Like all facets of our society, it is headed towards those who "have" financially being the only ones with the resources - both time and money - to enjoy new music. The "have nots" either have the time, but not the money resources to enjoy it to the max - face it, mp3 players, high speed internet and satellite radio all cost disposable income...or they are working so hard to make more money, they don't have the time.

Yet another way music and other art forms are reflecting the society as a whole.

S*

[Tony Cartmill]

[no he's much more like this era's colin blunstone [/QB]

Right! (Shhhh! Tony, Act like you know who Colin Blunstone is...So Pierson won't slap you.)