Raspberries = Cutting Edge; Eric solo = ?

[darlene]

Kirk, You have the best ideas!...

--Darlene

[gordharris]

OK, did someone say, RAM-by Paul MCCartney, Great!

One of my favs too, including, Give My Regards To

Broad Street". Pipes and Peace" Wings At The Speed Of Sound,The funny psychedelic red album, where Paul is holding the earphones to his ears.

On the front cover.

[Matthew C. Clark]

That would be "Tug Of War" by Paul McCartney from 1982. I like the song "What's That You're Doing" (duet with Stevie Wonder) over "Ebony And Ivory". Matt

[James]

This was an interesting thread (before my day), with all the music All-Stars of EC.Com contributing interesting posts.

Cutting edge is a good thing. I think Elton John's first album "Empty Sky" coming out in 1969 was very much cutting edge if you think back to the music landscape of that time. I'm not sure he gets enough credit for being "cutting edge".

But "cutting edge" isn't a prerequisite for greatness (assuming Raspberries were cutting edge and Eric Carmen was not). I'm still not sure if I like Rasperries better than Eric Carmen solo or vice versa but IMHO Eric Carmen's first album is head and shoulders above any of the 4 Rapberries albums. To me it's a melodic masterpiece as every song on the album is exceptional (except possibly his cover of "On Broadway" although it was good). I can't say that about any of the 4 Raspberries albums. I thought most of Dave Smalley's songs on the first 2 albums were average at best although he came through very big on Side 3 with "Makin It Easy" and "Should I Wait". I, like others who posted here, feel closer to the "Boats" album and "Boats Against The Current" is his best song but an objective look tells me that (at least melodically) it's inferior to the debut.

RE: Paul McCartney , I'll take "Venus & Mars/Rock Show", "Beware My Love", "Junior's Farm", "1985", "Jet" "Band On The Run" & others over just about any Beatles song.

[Brian Mac]

Marvin, I too was a huge Raspberries fan before Eric went solo. But I saw the EC album totally differently. To me, it was the maturing of a gifted artist. It is the great solo album Brian Wilson never made. I love it more than “Boats.†Eric had it all going on. One of the greatest voices in pop history in it’s finest form. He could croon like a choirboy on one cut and scream like Daltry on the next. His songwriting was so strong, he could almost hurt you with it. Fantastic production from The Tooth. It was a solo album, not a group album and that’s the way it sounded to me. But it also showed great growth. All by Myself was much more than an “Adult Contemporary Ballad.†It is a Pop Standard. Big difference. It is Eric’s “Yesterday†and it was groundbreaking on several levels. When did you ever hear drums like that on a AOR hit before? Not to mention the piano concerto in the middle. It was “I Can Remember†on steroids. And it had never been done before. Not by the Beatles or the Beach Boys or ANYONE. The cool intro to Sunrise, the ironic lyrics about rebirth, his best middle eight yet, and then that Elton John fadeout with the horns and the false ending. I got chills the first time I heard it. The last song on the last Raspberries album was “Starting Over.†I think “Sunrise†follows that sentiment wonderfully. Listen to them back to back and you’ll see what I mean. It was such passionate music. The longing in “Everything.†The brilliant complexity of “My Girl.†It wasn’t lost on me that Arista Records was located “On Broadway†at the time. Listen to the words. He was gonna make it in the music business if it killed him. And it almost did. And then he finishes the whole thing off with “No Hard Feelings.†A blistering rocker in the great Raspberries tradition. The screaming of “Let me out†was classic. A great ending, a great tribute to the boys, and one of the greatest albums I’ve ever heard.

[aggiesjc]

That self-titled first solo album is my favorite among his post-Raspberries albums.

[marvin]

Great post Brian Mac. I also love that first EC album. I don't think that there's any question that it's easily Eric's best 'pop' album, and listening to it now, you'd never think the same artist came back with something as serious (mature?) as the "Boats" album.

Marvin

[WANNAMAN]

As I said in a previous post.. when Eric went solo the guitar and drums took a backseat to everything else. This is not a bad thing as I love Eric's solo music as much as the Raspberries music. They are two totally different sounds. When I was 10 years old and I bought the Eric Carmen solo single "She Did It" I did not know he was from the Raspberries.

[darlene]

Yikes is right, because there are several themes running through this thread. I was a Raspberries fan first, and yes, it was that gorgeous and magical vocal blend that drew me like a moth to a flame. The second set of Berries was different, for sure, but again, the vocal blend and the music did it for me. When Eric went out on his own, I knew his voice, and I knew it was amazing. I wasn't wrong. I welcomed everything he did, knowing that this was a new quest for him. Raspberries members were young and inexperienced to the music business, and Eric was still young when he went solo. I knew he was learning to deal with the forces in the industry as well as finding his own style, but I loved his voice and was delighted with his albums. There was so much great music on every album, I've always been happy. When he did the Boats album, I found it incredible. Loved them all--Geffen, et al. I felt that the many changes he went through exemplified more of an attempt to please the powers that be in the industry rather than a quest for style. I always felt that the albums and songs I loved best were those that best reflected his style, and I still do. My wish for Raspberries to reunite was never a wish to downplay Eric's solo status. I love his voice, solo or with the Berries, but no one can deny their magic together, nor the chemistry/magic that is Eric and Wally together, singing, playing and especially writing. I believe that whatever Eric does separately, the Berries will continue to evolve their own style, and that it will eventually include new music, but on their own time schedule. That more than fulfills my dreams, and I predict that theirs will be fulfilled also.

--Darlene

[Kirk]

Brian Mac get's it! Kirk.

[Gregkevinw]

nice post mac! one of my favorite moments from that first solo cd is eric screaming "let me out" on no hard feelings. withe the guitar riff from "go all the way" underneath his voice.

you can feel his frustration and anger with the sad state of affairs that the 'berries had become.

[hosskratz]

As far as cutting edge goes, it can be a double edged sword. Alex Chilton hit the big time with The Box Tops, had several hit records, but one would never consider the Box Tops nothing more than a good pop group. In his solo career, Alex would be considered the "godfather" of cutting edge as his group Big Star and his solo work influenced many New Wave, Punk and is credited with inspiring the "Minneapolis" sound that was so popular for a time in the 80's. Yet for all of his praise, he ended up for a time being a dishwasher to help make ends meet, this being after success. Eric's solo work is different from his work with Raspberries because that is what he was writing for and wanted. Part of the benefits of being a solo performer is that you can do what you want. Wally's post Raspberries work was different from what he had done, but another thing to consider is that Raspberries was a group, and that they were writing in the context of being a group. Had the band stayed together, I'm sure the sound would have matured even more, and perhaps, Eric would have still recorded his own solo material as artists such as Joe Walsh, Phil Collins, Glen Frey and others have done while still a member of their bands. Personally, I prefer the Raspberries music and Wally's post music because it is more rocking, but, I have also always enjoyed Eric's solo work, and have to agree, Boats Against The Current is a masterpiece, very personal and perhaps too mature for most listeners.

[hosskratz]

I forgot to add, next Saturday, the 12th, the Box Tops are playing at Navy Pier, with all original members including Alex Chilton. Seems he has gone back to his original group. The Box Tops have performed for the last several years in one form or another as they played near my town a couple of years ago. The fact that Raspberries only performed as same when the original members got together, and only then, and sounding as great as they have, is a testament to how truly great a band they were.

[marvin]

The Box Tops were a really great white 'soul' band, and I believe, very under-appreciated.

Marvin

[bahoodore]

wow...great post on EC first album....I agree with Brian Mac. When I first listened to it , it blew my mind. It is a wonderful album with mood changes all over it. It captivates the listener from the git-go.

I have always liked albums with orchestration on it. Done well, it can be a different trip than a pop , band sound.

And thank you for the "On Broadway" explanation. It gives me a little more acceptance to why it is on the album. when I heard it the first time, I was dissappointed, not with the version, but that there was a cover tune on the record. From what I had known about EC, there appeared to be no logical reason to include anything but his own compositions.

as a matter of fact, I feel the same about "Baby, I Need Your Lovin'"

Bah

[James]

Yo tambien.

[darlene]

Brian Mac gets it indeed! One of the best analyses of Eric's albums I've ever heard, and right on. If one really goes back and listens, one "gets the chills" many many times in Eric's catalog. An artist of his calibre intrinsically "has it," and will not work with anyone who doesn't. This is why Raspberries (and every other band/artist he's worked with before or since) is so good. He doesn't sacrifice his standards, because it simply is not within him to do so. Brian, you absolutely called it! My hat is off to you. I believe that in putting their work out there once again, Raspberries and Eric will pick up just where they left off. They have the benefit of artistic maturity and their purposes will be much more clear to themselves, so they can chart their course much more easily to shoot for the stars.

--Darlene

[beachberry]

What's this world coming to? I concur with both MArvin and Raspbernie at the same time. Oh no!!

Fresh was probably the best Berries album and BATC was absolutely EC's Best. Fresh was the best because it started to forge a sound was remarkably familiar but BRAND new and not until the late 80's did people really understand and appreciate it. When you listen to FRESH and SIde 3 on CD you hear the background vocals so clear and so strong. Layey upon layer. Side 3 just rocks but it is well composed. FRESH was a total band effort. Side 3 was the beginning od the end.

BATC was a concept album. It showcased Eric as a writer/composer with a great voice.

If I only had one choice it would be Raspberries hands down. THe group was better as a whole than as a sum of their parts. THe music was fun, inspiring, and if you were a teenager then it was your life on vinyl.

Thank goodness we get more than one choice.

[Trindy]

Brian Mac, do you mean that "No Hard Feelings" finished the whole album off "for you" or that it finished the whole album off...because in the latter sense it didn't..."Everything" came first, then "No Hard Feelings," then "On Broadway," like a trilogy...ending with kidlike optimism, rather than wistful wisdom or frustration...which I think was the right way to end. "I've been burned, I know being in this business is not easy, but I'm going to go back into the fight with the same kind of optimism that I would if I were brand new to it."

Oh, and while we're on this topic I don't think Alex Chilton is totally back with the Box Tops. I know he either played or is playing the Beachland Ballroom here as a solo act.

[Gregkevinw]

trindy, quit being such a stickler :p

[Carmen Smalley]

Maybe Eric solo is cutting edge now.(The Bend Folds Five,Keane...)

[darlene]

Carmen, great post! Good to see you! I have a migraine headache, but getting up to take medication, I stopped by the board. It was worth it to see Carmen back!

--Darlene

[mannoman]

And all this time I thought the Box Tops were just a studio creation.

Ted

[marvin]

Carmen what does this mean?

"Maybe Eric solo is cutting edge now.(The Bend Folds Five,Keane...)"

Marvin

[Gregkevinw]

i think carmen is saying that there may be a market for ec solo that was'nt there before because of the bands that she mentions having success currently.