JohnO

...that's because I'm used to dealing with f***ing politicians here for a living..... Seriously...and I don't even remember if Marv was one of the complainers at the time, but....several list members bitched to High Heaven in a thread awhile back about the R&R HOF, about how the Pistols and Ramones were basically a bunch of low-life druggies (in spite of each of those bands only having one verifiable junkie...), while ignoring the fact that some of the best known rockers already in the HOF made those two bands look like rank amateurs, drug-wise and booze-wise.

...then I'll add an alternate version....if "wimpiest rockers, music-wise", followed by the Eagles reference, offends anyone, then instead....... Hell, even the most mainstream, popular rockers who had money (EX: Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Eagles) allegedly did more drugs in a week than the poorer ones with the reps (Ramones, Sex Pistols) did in several years.....

"UH. OH...Marvin's not gonna like this." What isn't he gonna like, my Eagles reference? If it's about their playing "wimpy" rock, that's arguable/debatable. If it's the drugs reference, Hell, their on-the-road lifestyle has been documented repeatedly in interviews with Frey and Henley.

To stop the Rush bashing for at least the time being...I actually kinda liked their all-covers EP from a couple of years ago....but then, I realized that the only reason I liked it was because they didn't do Rush songs....and even then, I didn't care for Mr. Lee's caterwauling. (I remember reading a review years ago that compared Geddy to a parakeet - both in looks and singing)....now, what was it I said about Rush bashing...let it continue!

If anyone saw DA Pennebacker's "Only The Strong Survive" several years ago (it came out shortly after "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown"....and was just as good a documentary about 60's soul as "Standing"), it was fairly obvious that Wilson P. was still living "the life", bragging about a $6,000 suit...AND still sounding great on stage, even if he was getting a bit long in the tooth. I'm sure he lived life to its absolute fullest. NOTE: I'm somewhat amused by the occasional comments on this board about musicians' drug use, boozing, etc. - as if that's somehow odd for rock & rollers. Hell, even the wimpiest rockers, music-wise, who had money (EX: Eagles) allegedly did more drugs in a week than the poorer ones with the reps (Ramones, Sex Pistols) did in several years....

A bit eerie, two of the guys mentioned in Arthur Conley's (co-written by Otis Redding) "Sweet Soul Music" passing within days of each other - the Wicked One and Lou Rawls......which leaves us with who, James Brown and Sam Moore (of Sam & Dave)? I think everyone else , including Arthur Conley himself, is gone. For a great companion song to that classic, check out "Soul Survivor" on Wilson P's last album, "It's Harder Now" from 1998.

Wim - Sorry, I just got back from a long weekend out of town.....Fine Wine was Jerry Miller & Bob Mosley from MG, as well as Johnny Caviotta and Michael Been (later in the Call). One LP on Polydor that was never released in the US.

Tony - If all you can find is the SF Sound version (SF SounD is Katz's label), I'd still buy it. The entire 1st album is also on "Vintage", a double disk set that Sony/Columbia put out several years ago, but I think it's out of print.

If Grossman did "all he could", including completing, what, 2 of his first 15 passes (and not coming close on most of them - where was he throwing that ball???), then the Bears need another damn QB, OR another offensive coordinator (16 of their first 19 plays were passes - that AIN'T how they went 11-5!)....although, admittedly, Rex G. ultimately did NOT cost them that game - their lack of any sort of a pass rush did. Their defense lives or dies by their pass rush....and Delhomme had all fricking day to pass. Whatever Carolina's offensive line coach did to make adjustments since the first game - they worked!

By the way, the opening act The Alarm Clocks should also be excellent - a raunchy, early Stones/Shadows of Knight-styled R&B band. Norton Records put out an anthology of their stuff several years ago.

And speaking of the Grape and quality bands....they recently won their lawsuit with ex-manager from Hell Matthew Katz, and they'll likely be reforming again soon, and may be playing again shortly. The version of MG that last played a bunch of shows in 97/98 was Jerry Miller, Bob Mosley, & Pete Lewis, plus Sam Andrew (of Big Brother & The Holding Company and Janis Joplin's last band) in Skip Spence's place, and James Preston (Sons of Champlin) on drums. If this isn't mainstream enough, well.....Preston's main band is fronted by Bill Champlin of Chicago. P.S. For fans of the tune "It's A Beautiful Day Today", they did it in '98 at Wetlands (NYC)...and I have tapes of both shows there.....

One more Moby Grape fact from me....Wim - There's one other thing that prevented me from recommending MG '69 to Tony C. above.....that album's NEVER been released in the US in CD format. Most of it's on the double disk "Vintage" set, but, for some reason, Columbia never released either that LP or their 4th, "Truly Fine Citizen".....and the Yahoo Moby Grape group/list has been writing nasty letters to Columbia for years about this.

Wim - There are killer songs on every Grape album, including The Melvilles, their '90 comeback (Skip Spence's "All My Life I Love You"), and yes, MG '69 is also a great LP. The band themselves, however, will tell you (and I'e interviewed both Bob Mosley and Pete Lewis) that their debut LP is their all-time best. I recommended it to Tony C. above as the best possible intro to the band, which, I believe it is.

LC - Your comment about Dylan just kinda proved my contention about his originality - "old blues and country artists"....yeah, I probably agree with that, but just who the Hell were they??? Woody G., yeah, he was a definite influence, as were Ramblin Jack Elliott, Dave Van Ronk and others of that ilk....but Bob D. sounded nothing like any of them. In interviews, he's mentioned influences like Blind Willie McTell, but he sounds nothing like him at all. Of course, he also told an interviewer one time that his all-time favorite C&W song was Billy Ed Wheeler's "The Interstate Is Coming Through My Outhouse"...which, I think, was a put-on...but maybe not. Every musician on Earth has obviously had influences, except the first cave man who pounded on a rock with a stick....and he probably saw an animal doing that. To me, you're an original if it's next to impossible to trace your roots by your artistry...and Dylan fits the bill to me, at least as far as his lyrics go. (and maybe his hair....)

Tony - All you need is the first LP, "Moby Grape". Columbia issued 5 singles (10 of the 13 songs on the LP) simultaneously with the LP's release, which confused disk jockeys from coast to coast...who, unfortunately, played none of them. At the huge, much-hyped party by Columbia celebrating the album release, several band members were caught with drugs and underage girls, and everything from that point on, sadly, went downhill. The first LP is a stone killer classic though. All 5 band members sang, all 5 wrote.

At the risk of potentially crappy weather that time of year...I also just got a ticket. Now, I gotta find a cheap airfare, car & hotel.

John B. - Freddie and Cam King just reunited The Explosives, along with Ronnie Barnett of the Muffs on bass (replacing Walt Collie), and they played their first show on 9/24 at SXSW, backing up wild man Roky Erickson. It was Roky's first show in over 20 years with a band. The Explosives played with Roky extensively in the 80's, cutting one live LP with him ("Casting The Runes"). Freddie's latest band The Freddie Steady 5 also released a new CD late last year - "Freddie Steady Go!", featuring 15-16 covers of classic Texas 50's and 60's rock & roll ("Woolly Bully", "You're Gonna Miss Me", "She's About A Mover", "I Fought The Law", "Not Fade Away", "96 Tears"....a very cool CD and a great listen. Available thru Fat Pete Records.

Just thought I'd mention several excellent new releases by old rockers who are still plying their craft, in spite of the lack of sales and/or interest by the mainstream..... (1) Eric Burdon - The Soul of A Man - This just came out last week; it's mostly an album of blues covers by Eric, versus last year's (or late 2004's) excellent "My Secret Life". The latter was mostly new originals by Eric, and the album was in Van Morrison-ish folk/rock vein. On the new one, EB covers Howlin' Wolf, Fred McDowell, Eric Bibb, and several others. Mojo has given it a 4 star rating (out of 5), and the NY Post 4 stars out of 4. Personally, I've been shocked by these last 2 releases of Eric's....the last time I saw him live, it appeared that his pipes were shot - not so! His singing is better than ever on both of his last 2 albums. (2) Bob Mosley - True Blue - on the German Taxim label. Bob is Moby Grape's bassist and arguably their best singer as well. He used to be a soul shouter par excellance, but the years have taken their toll on the strength of his voice (also living on the streets in San Diego and Santa Cruz for the better part of 15 years during the 80's-90's....he's been diagnosed as paranoid/schizophrenic, although not to the extent of the late Skip Spence). Bob got married a couple of years ago, and has since settled down. The Grape occasionally reunites (their last show in 2001). This new Bob album is his first recording since The Melvilles/Legendary Grape of 1990 (finally released on CD in '03)...a new batch of originals, blues/R&B oriented, with a small band (Bob on guitar/bass, Dale Ockerman of the Doobie Bros. on keys, James Preston of Sons of Champlin on drums). Bob's voice, while weaker than in the past, has aged like fine whiskey, and gotten more expressive. A great batch of new tunes, as well as remakes of the Grape's "Never" and "Lazy Me". This man can flat out sing! (3) Sal Valentino - Come Out Tonight (on Fat Pete Records, not yet released) - I got an advance copy of this from its producer, my friend Freddie Krc, who was Jerry Jeff Walker's drummer for 20+ years, in addition to being the front man for The Shakin' Apostles and Freddie Steady Five. Sal V. was the Beau Brummels' lead singer (remember "Laugh Laugh" and "Just A Little" - their Top 40 hits in '64 or '65) and was also in Stoneground in the 70's. What I just said about Mr. Mosley also goes for Sal. His singing has been described as "Gene Pitney filtered through Bob Dylan". This is Sal's first studio recording in over 25 years, although he's been playing with his band in the Sacramento area for years, and played SF's Bay Pop festival a couple of times in recent years (lastly in 2000, with the "Cuban Heels", doing Beau Brummels songs). On the new LP, Sal does songs by Jimmy Silva (great, great SF area songwriter who died a couple of years ago), Peter Case/Bill Lloyd, Keith Sykes, and Freddie Krc, as well as some originals and a low key acoustic cover of "Folsom Prison Blues". It's mostly folk/rock with some electric 12 string jangle tossed in. Sal's voice is instantly recognizable and very distinctive. Hopefully, this CD will be released shortly and be widely available. Sal's got a web site. All three are excellent albums. Eric B's can be found in most stores; Bob M's probably has to be ordered via Taxim's web site; Sal's will be available vis Fat Pete Records, once it's released.

...and, lest anyone think I don't like "purty" singing, Moby Grape (with 3 excellent singers, 1 very good one, and, well....Skip Spence) is one of my all-time faves, and their harmonies stack up against any 60's or 70's band.

Regarding my earlier comment about the Eagles ....To me, they were a slick and soul-less version of the Flying Burrito Brothers and Gram Parsons-period Byrds, admittedly with a lot more commercial potential (obviously), because they went in more of a R&R than C&W direction. It's like comparing Garth Brooks to George Jones, or Green Day to the Ramones. And yes, I clearly understand the appeal of the Eagles, CSNY, Jackson Browne, etc., etc., etc. To quote Popdude, they sing purty. But they ain't my cup o' tea.

Not to take sides here...especially since I haven't checked out Venice's web site or music yet, but.....to me, using the Eagles as a point of reference ain't gonna float my boat. Henley, Frey & co., to me, belong in Webster's Dictionary next to "slick" (and maybe "soul-less-ness" too....is that a word, hyphenated or otherwise?)

..and I forgot to add....to quote Sparks, "Dance, goddammit!"

To review an array of strange dances, please go to: www.zefrank.com/indexdance.html for basics, and: www.zefrank.com/dance2/navigation.html for advanced dances. These are most excellent!

Raspberrywine - This pretty much sounds like what's already happening in Iraq and with the "war on terror"....except you somehow have to work in something about the US President's malapropisms and 2 drunk daughters...... Seriously....with the recent releases of "Breakfast On Pluto" and "Transamerica", I think we're leaving out the new trend in movies of transvestites and/or pre-op transsexuals as main characters. Somehow, this needs to be worked into your plot....

By the way, to give Tony a legit answer to his question about "BBM" and "our repressive 60's society just not accepting those 2 sweet loving cowboys"......Actually, their relationship is so f*cked up because it's not really clear that one of them (H.Ledger) is Gay, although he does have some sort of a physical addiction to the other, and he's not happy with his marriage situation. The other character (Jake G.) is Gay, and wants a relationship with Ledger's character, even if he's also married. Both of them are lying to their spouses and cheating on them over the years, of course....it gets rather complex, and would have made a great soap opera, even if one of the characters had been a woman. Society's intolerance is just a subplot, one of many. P.S. And lest anyone question the possibility of a non-gay man having sex with men and not being Gay himself.....I suggest you go find the biggest, meanest ex-convict you can, and tell him/her that if they had sex more than once while incarcerated, they're Gay. (Ledger's first encounter with Jake G. was while they were out in the middle of nowhere, with only the sheep and/or horses for company....not unlike a jail scenario).