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Lydia

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  1. Wrong again! Everybody speaks differently with different groups of people and they do it all the time. Everybody, including you. Race has nothing to do with it.I speak differently with my father's friends than I do with my own - and about different subjects. There are things I'll discuss in certain places tht I won't in others. It's not a racial issue at all, so how could it possibly be racist? The only differnce is that we admit it openly and have no problem with it. People get "offended" when bi-lingual people switch to some language other than English when English people are around. Some English people feel that this is rude. Most of my Puerto Rican friends say otherwise. They regard it as a sign of mutual repect, as do I. IF you have issues with this, then you have issues with this. Don't palm them off on me just because you don't get it! And as for you Tony, unfortunately my time is limited. But where did you ever get this "victim mentality" idea from. Probably from whatever twisted place you get your ideas of what the "black community needs to do" from. When I see the black community I see hundreds of thousands of Social Workers, Educators, Community leaders, Volunteers, Block Captains, PTA members, Reading Tutors, Arts Counselors, Police Athletic League Coordinators, Knights of Columbus members, Rotarians, Masons, Fraternity and Sorority Leaders, Youth Group leaders, Drug Counselors, Fund Raisers,and just plain good people. For some inexplicable reason you see whiners sitting around with their thumbs up their asses asking for handouts. How could this be? You have some really strange ideas. Maybe your source is unreliable. You also have no patience.....I'll be back later.
  2. Tony's quotes have been rearranged, but otherwise unedited. Quote:Let me have it Lydia Just remember that long time government employees like you often loose perspective in the real world...With your automatic raises, increasing vacation time, easy performance evaluations, paid personal and stress leave...Ain't it great to be in a union that negotiates pay and conditions with politicians sitting on piles of tax dollars? Sorry to disappoint but I work for a private social services agency now. Why? Twice the pay, better benefits, a managable caseload, etc. I even have remarkable new things I never had in government service like my own office and my own telephone. Whoopee! Quote: A couple of issues to remember: 1. Rap Music, especially hard core Rap, is a polarizing art form. You either like it or you hate it. When I hear it for any length of time, I want to slap somebody. But I feel the same way about Death Metal music played by stringy-haired white boys. So when you have Rap/Hip Hop music accompaning almost every message that comes out of the black community, some of the message gets lost in the mind-numbing thumping and the offensive lyrics. Cheeze and crackers Tony - you sound like my grandmother! Let's join Sherman and Mr. Peabody for a trip in the Way-Back machine and look at your quote through the miracle of Time Travel. It's easy and fun! To go back 35 years or so, just remove every occurance of the word "rap" and "Hip Hop" from the above quote and replace it with the word "Rock N Roll". Suddenly, you'll remember those old film clips of responsible citizens deeply concerned about the state of America's youth because of the scourge of that nigra music, Rock 'N Roll. Not to mention ***gasp!*** long hair. You'll sound just like my father who refused to allow Beatles records in the house. To go back 30 more years replace the word "Rock N Roll" with the word "Jazz" and you'll sound like my grandmother. Or go back 20 years further and use the word "Ragtime". Tony, you sound just like some crusty old curmudgeon. All of these different types of music have things in common. 1. They were embraced by the younger geration of that era. 2. The older generation didn't like it. 3. It was black music and therefore not "art" or "classy". It was polarizing because kids would listen to it in their rooms by themselves. The words, if any, were nasty or derogatory or too sexual or unintelligible. And 4, It became widely embraced by white youth, became immensely popular, ended up becoming one of the dominant musical artforms of it's era and eventually became the music at first imitated, then appropriated and finally(with the exception of Rap) dominated by young white artists. Rap music is different only because African Americans are still a dominant creative and financial part of the genre. We haven't been disappeared yet, like with Rock N Roll. But the reason it is so immensely popular is because white people are buying it. It doesn't just play on BET, it dominates MTV too! I read in Billboard Online (I think) that even the buyers of hardcore Gansta Rap are 60% white. The percentages for more palatable acts like Nelly and Will Smith more closely match the general black/white racial breakdown in America - sales are about 10% black, 90% other. And similarity #4 has been going on for a while now. Who is the best-selling rap artist of all time? Why, Eminem, of course! Rap music isn't just a black thing anymore. It's an American thing. Like Rock. Like Jazz. Like Ragtime. It only looks like a "black thing" because we started it and are still a large part of it. A whole lot of Rap has acutally become quite listenable of late. Outkast and Black Eyed Peas anyone? So close your ears and sit tight, Granpa Tony. Something new will come along in about 10 - 15 years....but there's no guarantee you'll like it. Quote:2. Like it or not, America's power is still mostly held by middle-age white people who wear suits and ties, have a good education, and speak proper english. If you want to get more of that power and economic freedom (outside the music and fashion business), You might have to play their game, and try to act a bit more like them. Know what I'm sayin'? I agree with your assesssment of who is in power in America, except for the good education part. There's a lot of under-educated bozos out there running things too. But, unfortunately for you, your're reading a post written by the founder of a brand new movement. I'm calling it Stop Assimilation Now!(S.A.N.). I won't be able to stand living in an America where everyone talks the same, wears the same kinds of clothes, has the same cultural values, and thinks just alike. How awful! The instant we got our first black serial killer I knew assimilation had gone too far. Leave that shit to the white people. White folks are just going to have to learn that people are different. The old ones will die sooner or later. It may take a long, long time, but how will blending in and smoothing out everyone's individual characteristics improve genuine understanding? And what's so great about being just like white people, anyway. We're better! Can't you see that? No? White people from the South are stigmatized as hicks and dummies just because they have strong accents. Should they all change the way they speak? No, of course not. So I say keep speaking ebonics, braiding your hair and naming your boys Daquan and your girls Shaqueena. Would you believe I know three white girls named Aisha? See. It works! So, NHBushman is that radical enough for you? Quote:I need more explanation from Lydia though... She seems to embrace the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton "us against them" thought process. In the whole novella she wrote, I can't remember her once admitting that the black community DOES need to look inward and take more responsibily in solving the problems in their culture. She just wants to focus on Cosby's breaking the secret unspoken code of "Blacks can't criticize other black's bad behavior anywhere where white people can hear them." Give me a break...This is 2004! Did Cosby go too far in some of his remarks? Yes. (Dirty Laundry...) But his message rings true! (Even if he violated some old race code) It needs to be discussed and debated by everybody who wants to make this slowly morally rotting country, a better and stronger place to live. ::::sigh:::: Tony, Tony, Tony! You haven't been listening properly. There is no "us" and "them". There's issues you really care about because they seem affect you personally, and issues you don't really care about because they don't seem affect you personally. Jesse and Al simply refuse to let certain issues die. No matter how tiring and repetitive it gets. And do you honestly have any clue whatsoever about how much inward looking we've done as a community or how much responsibility we've actually taken already? Any idea whatsoever? For real! If you do, I'd like to know where you got that knowledge from. And if you don't, what makes you so sure that's what "we" need to do? Could it possibly be that something else is required? Something you maybe haven't thought of yet? Because you really just don't know any better? And you're absolutely wrong about me. I don't want you to just focus on one of our cultural traditions that you choose to belittle. I distictly remember posting that I'd get into specifics in a later post. I can really only get on the computer after hours here at work so I can't always satisfy your need for instant gratification. Here's a quote of Cosby's from the Larry King Show that I specifically remember his making - from totally out of the blue, apropos of nothing. "Black men need to stop beating their wives (changing to a disparaging , mocking tone) because of what "The Man" has done to them." Folowed up by comments about how the need to pick themselves up by their boot straps and work hard, etc,etc,etc. Does anybody out there agree with this? Well, excuse me, but in all my years of Social Service I have never heard that a black man beat his wife because of "The Man". Where the f*** did he get such a stupid-ass idea? And no offense, but don't white men beat their wives too? Maybe I missed the memo, but when did spousal abuse become a black issue? I mean, Cos was talking about problems in the black community and how we need to fix our selves all by ourselves. Last I heard spousal abuse encompassed all races. Why does Cos think black wife-beaters have to do anything different from white wife-beaters? Why does "the black community" have to do something about this problem apart from everybody else? Where are you coming from Cos? I don't get it. The Commonwealth of PA spent gazillions of dollars sending every single caseworker in PA to 3 day intensive training Domestic violence seminars. I still have my paperwork. Nowhere does it say that black men beat their wives more than men of other races. Nor does it state that men of different races beat their wives for different reasons. Nor does it suggest that strategies for helping families with this problem be different for different races. If the government of PA had enough sense to recognize domestic violence as an issue of concern to everyone of every race, then obviously we all need to be working together on this problem. Without regard to race. Throughout his diatribes against the black community, Cosby keeps interweaving universal societal problems that have nothing to do with the black community specifically, but then acts like we have to solve this horrible problem all by ourselves because it's our own fault. Drug dealers? Well, at drug and alcohol training we learned that according to the DEA 70% of all drug dealers are white. 30% are Black and Hispanic. I was surprised at first, but when I thought about it that's pretty close to racial percentages. And after all, who's selling drugs in Bismark and Fargo - Flaco and Jamal? I don't think so. So why is drug dealing a black problem and why is the black community expected to solve it? Or should we adopt the attitude of "We'll solve it in our community, you solve it in yours." Good Ol' Cos is fired up about a whole lot of "black community" issues, isn't he? I can show you how incredibly stupid his comments on education are (and he's got a Doctorate! HA!) by personal example and I happen to think they are the most spurious of all the things he has had to say. But it will have to wait until Saturday. The examples involve my grandchildren and I want to make sure my daughter is OK with me commenting about it before I post. I'm sure it will be OK with her, but still - I want to ask first. And frankly, I think explanations are better when they are more personal and less abstract. So Tony, you'll just have to wait. You know how you love it when I make you wait for it.
  3. Here's hoping that you have the happiest of all birthday's!
  4. Good question! Actually, I think it only happens anymore with little old men and ladies. That's just the way their world is. Although in California I would guess the old-timers get more confused with Mexicans. The funny thing is that I work part time for a large catering company, so half the time I really am the help. No wonder people get confused. Whatever the reason it's always good for a quick laugh.
  5. Oh why wait? Darlene is such a sweetheart I'll just answer her real quickly so she doesn't have to worry.
  6. You know what? I really think you all are worth the effort. But prepare yourselves for the longest post in ericcarmen.com history. If you don't read anything else, please read between the asterisks ************************************************** First and most importantly, James said in his post that some of my comments were insinuating that you all were racist. That is not true. I don't believe that any of you who posted in this thread are racist. It probably seems that way, though because of the subject we are discussing. In actuality I was feeling very frustrated, I lashed out, and insinuated that you were all stupid. If we had been discussing any other subject and I had made those comments you would have all been very justifiably insulted. But I get the impression that you gave me a lot of leeway and were real careful with your responses because you didn't want to hurt my feelings; even though I was being nasty to you. Those insinuations were completely uncalled for on my part and your kindness to me, though appreciated, was undeserved. I know it might be hard to accept that I truly didn't mean that you were stupid for not seeing things my way, but in all honesty, I didn't mean it at all. I hope you can accept my apology. I also hope that you can understand that my taking the time and effort to post my thoughts here is a testament to both your intelligence and open-mindedness. Even if you end up totally disagreeing with me. ************************************************* That being said, I still think Bill Cosby is an asshole. I'm sure there are some blacks out there who think he's great, but I don't know one single black person that doesn't agree with me, and I know plenty! In my first post I said something about really listening to what Cosby was actually saying and not reading into it what you've been thinking all along. Easier said than done but I'll see what I can do to help. James has provided us with an excellent example. This is a quote from his previous post. He was commenting on my comments...... Quote:3. Blacks in general act two-faced, and thus characterless, when in the presence of whites - I'm white and am obviously never around when blacks speak exclusively among themselves. But I have worked with, been neighbors and friends with many black people and I can't fathom, and thus refute your conclusion, that most black people would act in such a gutless manner. Did I ever suggest at any time that blacks were gutless or two-faced? No. And you know that blacks are not that way so the only conclusion you could come to was that my statement was untrue. But what if my statement is true? How do you reconcile that? The fact is that blacks speak differently about subjects amongst themselves AND are neither two-faced nor gutless. But you don't understand how that could be. You read my comment, felt offended on behalf of every black person you have ever known and instantly came to the defense of every black person in America. I loved it. Thank you! Well, I've also come to the defense of every black person in America by telling you that Bill Cosby is an asshole. Our motivations are actually the same here. The difference is that I genuinely understand why you think what he's saying makes sense, without any explanations from you. Yet you have no real clue why I find what he says so objectionable and have to explain myself in order for you to understand what I mean. Similarly, I can also understand why saying that blacks speak differently among themselves is objectionable to you. However,you have no clue as to why I think it's perfectly natural, honorable, acceptable and understandable. So now, the only way to prevent you from feeling negatively about me or that statement is to take the time and make the effort to explain it to you. I wouldn't have to explain it to a black person. It happens naturally. It's already understood - no effort required. Some people arenít worth so much effort, so I'd just leave the subject alone - or those people. Remember that T-shirt from a few years ago? It said "It's a Black thing - you wouldn't understand." It's the same thing. Refusing to discuss something with someone doesn't mean you're gutless. Especially if you think it's futile because the person is a dunderhead. I specifically stated that being more frank about issues when we're amongst ourselves isn't because we're hiding anything for a specific reason. I meant exactly what I said - that sometimes it doesnt seem worth the effort to have to go to all the trouble to explain everything. Explaining this stuff to you guys is hard as hell! You know, it takes 4 years of college to get a degree in Urban Studies( remember back when they used to call it Black Families?) but all I have to help you guys understand all this is a message board. But I find that I have enough respect for the people here to think you can understand how it is with us in les than four years. Class! Put your thinking caps on. Let's return to the issue of how blacks are NOT two-faced and gutless when they are less than frank with white folks. Please take a moment to think for a moment at the end of this paragraph. In your personal life, at what time would you be most likely to get into a discussion with a black person about Mr Cosby's statements? I doubt if you make an appointment with your black friends to meet and discuss racial issues at the cigar bar. So when does it happen? At a party? At the water cooler? In someone's home eating dinner? At a community meeting? In my experience it usually happens when somebody says something they later wish they hadn't - kinda like Tony Cartmilldoes. Please pause and take a moment to think about the last time you had a conversation with a black person about Mr Cosby - or any racial issues. How did you feel? How do you think they felt? Did you end up agreeing or disagreeing? You cheated! Go back and think about it for real! So, after thinking about it, do you really believe it's gutless for a black person to choose not to get too deeply into a racial discussion with a white person at say, the Company picnic? Is it gutless to hold your tongue amongst whites about such a hot-button issue at the local bar? What if it's a friend? What's so bad about a black person not wanting to discuss such an emotional issue with a white person that they consider to be a friend? Why bother when you could be having a great time talking to your friend about fishing? If he says something stupid just because he doesn't understand, why not let it go and keep fishing? Is that gutless? Don't white people do the same for each other? Since you used the phrase "two-faced", that shows that you think it's very "bad" to imply that blacks speak differently with whites than we do amongst ourselves. Also, that if we were to actually do such a thing we are somehow less than honorable. But it's not "bad" at all! Case in point: I was at a charity function recently. Even though I was wearing a black chiffon cocktail dress and rhinestone jewelry, someone mistook me for one of the "help". Yup! same old story. The white person I was talking to when the lady made her mistake was offended on my behalf, even though I wasn't offended. She mentioned it again back at our table and everybody made appropriate shocked and sympathetic or laugh-it-off type noises. I shrugged it off and didn't discuss it further, it made everyone uncomfortable and I wasn't planning on bring it up anyway. But as soon as it had happened I knew it was too good a story to leave untold and was saving it up for black folks . I laughed and talked about it and had a good ol time! There was nothing particulary negative about the conversations at all. It was the joy of a shared experience. They could remember times they had been mistaken for a skycap or a maid. We could get serious about it, laugh about it, expound on it or let it go as we chose. We could slide in and out of ebonics as naturally as sliding on wet ice. And it would happen with nobody feeling uncomfortable, defensive, embarrassed or whatever. Is that really being two-faced? I will grant that speaking differently around whites is not universal. My supervisor, whom I also consider a friend, is white. When I told her what had happened she told me, "She made that mistake because you look like a cross between Aunt Jemima and Mammy from "Gone With The Wind". (Before you get offended on my behalf, it's true! Look at my profile picture if you don't believe me.) And we both giggled uproariously. OK, fine. If you're that tight with your black friends, then I will concede that blacks may not speak differently around you. But would she have been able to be so free with her comment if we were with a group of black people? Especially if they all didn't know her? Of course not. But even so, as close as we are, it was still a little different when I was talking to her. After all, nobody black even jokingly suggested that the error was justifiable, like my white friend did. And if she had twisted her neck and called me "girlfriend" it wouldn't have been the same. Does that still seem "two-faced"? It's not, it's just different! And as far as Mr Cosby is concerned, consider this. Under certain circumstances, a large black woman like me can look a white person dead in the eye and say "Ya'll know how you white people are!" and everybody would laugh. Or groan. But it would be perfectly acceptable. It would be significantly harder for a white person, especially one in authority, to do the same regarding blacks and get away with it. It can happen, but generally speaking it's not culturally acceptable to either race for a white person to do that. There are things that both black people and white people can do when they are with their own kind that they shouldn't do in mixed company. Similarly, there are things that are culturally unacceptable only to the black community. You may not be familiar with them but they are just as real as the examples stated above. A black person talking negatively about the black community to a white person is culturally unacceptatable - to blacks. It should be unacceptable to whites as well but that's a whole 'nother subject. Listen carefully to what is being said. If it happens to you, a small alarm should go off in your head. Something is not right. But Mr Cosby has done worse. He has spoken negatively about blacks to white people under the guise of "Speaking To My People With Love In My Heart". Nonsense. I guess all you white folks just kinda accidently overheard it. But we weren't fooled. But even more than that, Mr Cosby has committed the culturally unforgivable. He spoke negatively about blacks to white people while at the same time setting himself apart. He's really telling whites, "I really care about my people - but I'm not like them. I'm different. I'm you're special black friend that's telling you how it really is. And you know what? It's just like you thought it was all along. But now that I've said it out loud, you can too. And nobody can say you're racist or stupid because I said it first. If all blacks were like me things would be better. You can relax. There's nothing you have to do to make things better." Listen carefully. If a black person ever talks to you about how it bothers him that, unlike him, other blacks need to improve or change, and they need to be more like him... don't ever trust him. Nobody black would. We truly are a different culture, with different standards and different rules. We're here in America, but as a community we have retained a separate cultural identity. That's why they teach us in College. Mr Cosby has rescinded his membership with that identity by placing himself apart from the rest of us. He didn't "lose his mind" by becoming some nefarious pedophile or drug dealer. He simply stopped being an acceptable black person. He hasn't been one for a while, but now he's gone so far over the deep end, every one can see it. We see a traitor. You see a "National Treasure". And Mr Cosby's final insult? His contentions about what's wrong with the black community are spurious. He's no dummy. What he has to say has been couched very carefully, but it's inflammatory and panders to the mistakenly pre-conceived notions of a community that is still struggling to understand us. He knows better. Hence, he is an asshole. I can give you some examples of precisely how awful some of his statements are, but that's what Tony Cartmill wants. And whatever Tony wants, Tony gets. But that will have to be a seperate post, just for him. I guess when all is said and done I'm still his bitch. :::sigh:::: And my next to last post will be about MLK for NHBushman. I'll include some of my radical race relations theories in that one. And I'm sure my final post will be to Darlene to thank her for being her sweet self.
  7. How 'bout an all chicken version of All By Myself? Just like that old recording of an all chicken chorus clucking "In The Mood". I can actually hear it in my head!
  8. I don't post often but I just had to stop by to let you know...... Bill Cosby is an asshole. And his message is largely irrelevant, cunningly twisted, and designed to be a soothing balm to your ears. I know his message sounds good to you but....sorry. I'm actually kind of surprised to read all of your posts here. I kinda figured most of the people here would be sharp enough to at least have a clue that something was a little fishy. Guess not. Some of the things he's said are actually downright idiotic. If you took a minute and actually thought about what he actually said(rather than what you've always wanted to hear) even you guys would be shaking your heads in wonder. I could pull some quotes for you but I'd be typing all night. Perhaps I'll give you a few examples later on when I have time. And if you hope he's reaching the Af-Am Community, I'm sorry to disappoint. Most kids I know either laugh or groan at the mention of his name. And older folks like my father (81 years old with 2 PHds and a Pillar of the Philly Af-Am community) laughs ruefully and wonders aloud if Bill's lost his damn mind. But then my Father has known him personally for a number of years, probably longer than I've been alive. Suggestion: if the issue is at all important to you, really listen to what he's saying and actually think about it for a bit. And by the way, you may see black people on TV nodding their heads, patting his back and saying positive things about his message, but that's not what we say when there aren't any white people around. Not that we're keeping secrets or anything. Sometimes it just doesn't seem worth the effort - everybody's so much more comfortable just believing it all. Lydia
  9. Lydia

    Lydia

    Quote:It sounds like you have heard my "I don't like to make love alone - it's no fun unless it also involves a rope & pulley, family size jar of Vaseline and a German Shephard" speech before. WOW! That's a little bit further than I've ever gone before. I've only ever used the travel size jar! Looks like you've got the inside track with Tony after all. :::sigh:::
  10. Lydia

    Lydia

    Hi Darlene! Yup, that was me. I haven't been around for a long while, that's true. It feels good to know that I've been missed. You see, I could never reconcile myself to the fact that Tony Cartmill had gotten married to some other female and left me on the shelf. I tried everything to get over it: strict Jungian analysis, Primal Scream Therapy, Rocky Road Ice Cream - you name it. Nothing worked! I slowly but surely slid steadily down the slippery slope that led to mental illness, drugs and high net carbohydrates. Then, my computer broke - I lost absolutely everything. Everything! "Devil and The Deep Blue Sea" - gone! All of those saved mp3s- Lost! Can you imagine my agony? So I got another one, but shortly thereafter my goddaughter needed one for college so I gave her mine. Then I started spending time at work online - but I got caught! I had to drastically cut back. Life has been quite hellish. And it's all Tony's fault! But, I always managed to lurk here w/o logging in so that I kept abreast of new happenings, and that's the only thing that has kept me from suicide. I always knew I could come to the message board when I needed a dose of Darlene's Sweet Lemonade. I did manage to find my own form of therapy. I've been working quite hard on those Eric Carmen Toys we talked about many moons ago (there are three of them now)and they're always good for a laugh. I have my signed (in acid free ink , I trust!) book to look forward to, my bosses have stopped looking over my shoulder quite so much ( I'm taking a real chance with this long post - EEK! ) so I can hang out online more and slowly but surely I'm getting over Tony getting my life back on track. BTW, I added my picture to my profile if you want to say Hi! Truthfully, I've thought of you often and I'm really glad to see ya. Lyd
  11. Hey Bernie, Umm...it's tomorrow! Just thought I'd remind you.
  12. Unfortuately, if you want someone to accompany you while you play, you MUST have the sheet music..URRGH! I have the song books for Change of Heart and Boats but they've fallen apart from over-use so I've gotten others from ebay. I don't want to have to use them and was hoping for the songbook. Lydia
  13. I wonder what one one called "It Hurts Too Much" would look like? Lyd
  14. True love is on display for all to share at www.ericarmen.com (not ericcarmen.com - there's only one "c") I typed this by accident and fell in love with this couple! Lyd
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