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Lew Bundles

Put your dukes up...

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I say that the Raspberries, as much as I love them, don’t belong in the R and R Hof....I’ll take on all challenges with appropriate arguments...Give me your best arguments “for” and I’ll use that same argument as to “nay”...The only argument that I won’t argue is that “The Raspberries should be In because “x” is in”...That is not a valid reason In my book...That is more an indictment on the other acts or the Hall itself...So Go All The Way and build your case...

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Before the subject of whether someone/something belongs on ANY "Top" list or Hall Of Fame, the criteria of what establishes that list has to be established. The R&R HOF certainly doesn't use sales or popularity as the driving measuring stick because there any many, many artists in there that are virtually unknown to the masses. Each year there are artists inducted that leave most scratching their heads. So it appears that  the "the influence and significance of the artists' contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll" weighs heavily in who is considered I. You say that you won't argue based on other artists that have already been inducted, but you really can't exclude that because that in it's very self established criteria. Just as in baseball, there is no set statistical criteria, but if every pitcher in the HOF had x amount of wins, and x amount of strikeouts, and then pitcher John Doe comes along and exceeds them in every category, doesn't that demonstrate the argument that they established the criteria by whoever has already been elected in?  The same goes for the R&R HOF. Beyond the stated criteria, they are establishing and building onto that by the other artists that they are inducting. There have been many examples on this web site where artists have named Raspberries as being influential to them. And some of these are themselves in the Hall. Raspberries were unique in their time, and were influential to other artists. Their contributions lead to the development and perpetuation of Power Pop.

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Kirk   

Well, I was going to make an argument similar to Craig, but he saved me some typing- bravo!

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James   

I may agree Lew, but Eric Carmen should be in for his genius work in the band, and in his solo career.  10 albums, as a unit they represent greatness. ..and he was the mastermind behind it all.

IMHO

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Kirk   

Had the topic been Raspberries or Eric solo for the R&R HOF, I would agree with James.  Eric never wrote a 'B' side tune... 

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Knock it off...I’m not sure that the Raspberries had much in the way of influence...To me, power pop started with She Loves You and the early Beatle hits and moved on to Badfinger before the Berries started their thing...

Also, I kind of parallel Eric/Raspberries career with John Waite/Baby’s...The Berries had one top ten and 2 other top twenty...That’s it...The Baby’s had two top 20’s and that’s it...

Solo, both Eric and Waite had “cash register” monsters with Eric at number 2 (All By Myself) and Waite with a number one(Missing You)...

Eric banged out 4 other top 20’s while Waite(solo and Bad English) had another number one(When I See You Smile) And one other top 20...

I give Eric the slight edge in chart success although never having a number one while Waite had 2...

Neither one had any significant impact with their lp’s, Group or solo..

I don’t think that sales totals tell the complete story...While many more musicians would credit Eric as an inspiration than Waite, John is known on both sides of the pond while Carmen is virtually unknown in Europe...

Not sure that any of these guys (Springsteen, Bon Jovi, etc.) endorsements really mean anything...If you count the number of people that cite Don Mattingly as an influence, it certainly doesent make a case for Donnie Ballgame...

As Craig eloquently pointed out, there is a difference in between Sports HOF’s and the Rock HOF...

I am really Don’t see John Waite as a Hof’er and Eric either...But, then again, Bobby Bland is in there and not sure he is significant anywhere...

Interesting debate/discussion...

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LC   

Sweet Lew! This is one of your best threads ever. It shows incredible bravado to go on the EC board in the midst of a grass-roots campaign out on social internet sites to get the Raspberries into the Hall of Fame. And here you come to throw some water on it all. And you know what? You make a sound anti-Raspberries argument with your "She Loves You"" bit and your John Waite comparison. 

But... I'm still solidly on the bandwagon. The Hall of Fame is a farce until it recognizes the band that, despite "She Loves You," was the architect of power pop. The only argument that matters is.... "Go All the Way," "Overnight Sensation," "Tonight," "Ecstasy," "I Wanna Be with You," "Let's Pretend," "I Don't know What I Want," "Should I Wait," "Party's Over," "I Can Hardly Believe You're Mine," etc. etc. :-)  

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