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Renaming Raspberries

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Duane   
On 2/20/2014 at 7:23 PM, Craig Benfer said:

James, I DO think that it's possible to overcome a "bad" name, but why make it tougher than it already is to become successful? I don't necessarily think the Beatles was a good name, but they overcame it. Raspberries not only had a bad name, but they were also marketed poorly.

Duane,  you have a very interesting take on Raspberries. Though using his own name might have brought greater acceptance, I don't think Eric was interested in that at all. At that time, I think he was still much more interested in being in a real group...a four or five member group like the Beatles or the Byrds, By the end of their run, he was ready to go solo, but not before then.

Were the other members truly replaceable? I don't think ANY member of a group is irreplaceable but some members are much  easier to replace than others. My take of it is that Eric is as close to being irreplaceable as you can get, but as a guitarist in the band I don't think Wally is far behind. How easy is it to find talent like that? Not easy!  I love Jim's drumming and think that Eric hit the lottery twice when he had to replace Jim with Mike McBride. Now I hate saying this because I truly love Dave and his contributions to the band, but I think he was the easiest to replace and I believe the Raspberries improved with the addition of Scott McCarl.

Your most intriguing thought is that even with with great success, they would not have stayed together any longer than they did. Hmmmmm. I hope Eric weighs in on that. I'm very anxious to hear what he has to say on that. 

Craig...I wonder if Capitol thought at the time that the name was part (most) of the problem? If they did then I think they missed an opportunity after the Side 3 album. After Jim and Dave left the group, half the band was gone anyway. Eric and Wally weren't seeing eye to eye either so it looks like the writing was on the wall for the demise of the Raspberries. If Capitol knew the end was near AND the name was a problem...looks like it would have been a perfect time for THEM to disband the Raspberries. Starting Over could have been Eric's first solo album (if they had any intention of keeping him on the label). Wally could have been given the choice to stay as EC's lead guitarist or move on...Mike McBride and Scott McCarl could have been brought in like they were. They could have kept EC's talent and rid themselves of the name all in one move. Eric was probably ready to go solo by then and if Starting Over was successful, he might have cut the ABM album with Capitol and avoided the Clive Davis experience. They could have re-released the first three albums and/or a greatest hits album as "Eric Carmen and the Raspberries" to connect the names for people. Of course, if they didn't think the name was any part of the problem, they were probably just trying to hold the band together long enough to squeeze one more album out of them while they still had name recognition.

I also wonder if the group would have lasted longer and/or ran smoother if Eric was clearly put in charge from the start. Whether it was as Raspberries, Eric Carmen or Eric Carmen and the Raspberries would things been different if Capitol had designated Eric as "the man" from the start. I think a lot of their turmoil and in-fighting was because Jim, Wally and Dave thought they were equal partners with Eric and that the band should be ran like a democracy. That doesn't really work when one man is clearly more talented/gifted. Eric Carmen was clearly the quarterback of this team and the Raspberries were going to go as far as he carried them. Things might have went smoother and/or lasted longer if Capitol had said from the start, "You three are very important parts of this band, but Eric Carmen calls the shots"...if they could have accepted their roles, this group might have made great music together for a long time. Of course, it could've also blown up before it ever started...guess we'll never know...

As you can see...I spend too much time thinking "what if" about too many things... :o

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Duane, I don't want to quote your whole post and I appreciate the fact that you gave a detailed explanation as to why you feel the way that you do, some are very valid points. Doesn't change my preference of the Raspberries music over the solo music (which I also love, just not as much) and that is okay. We all have those things that just tickle our fancies. I also like movie soundtracks, not the "Dirty Dancing" type but the Jurassic Park and Star Trek type, nothing better than driving down the road and people thinking the Enterprise is about to pass them by. I play my truck stereo LOUD.

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Kirk   

Duane, something to consider when talking about the dynamic of Raspberries- Jim, Wally, and Dave were already performing together when Eric wanted to join them.  I imagine it would be a delicate transition from 'new guy' in the band to leader of the Raspberries- even if you had the most talent within the group.  That would seem to be a recipe for trouble right from the start.

Eric has always said he preferred to play in a band...I can only imagine what the next album of Raspberries music would have sounded like after 'Starting Over'.  We know it would have had ABM on it!

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Duane   
On 2/21/2014 at 0:18 AM, adelia215 said:

Duane, I don't want to quote your whole post and I appreciate the fact that you gave a detailed explanation as to why you feel the way that you do, some are very valid points. Doesn't change my preference of the Raspberries music over the solo music (which I also love, just not as much) and that is okay. We all have those things that just tickle our fancies. I also like movie soundtracks, not the "Dirty Dancing" type but the Jurassic Park and Star Trek type, nothing better than driving down the road and people thinking the Enterprise is about to pass them by. I play my truck stereo LOUD.

adelia...that is definitely OK...I wouldn't dream of trying to change your Raspberries preference (as if I could)...I was just worried about offending anybody by saying anything negative about the Raspberries (the group, not the music). I love having these kinds of conversations, the give and take, the agreeing to disagree, etc...I love the music that I love and respect the music you love...I love what music means to each of us, even if it's different music for each of us. I also find it fascinating how we differ and I like talking about it. For example, James has always been one of my favorites here (don't get the big head, James...I have a lot of favorites)...anyway, James and I agree on a lot of things and on a lot of songs. We even agree that Boats Against The Current is our favorite EC song...we see eye to eye...we're in sync...we think alike...or so it seems. I once posted the video for Eddie Money's Take Me Home Tonight, which I love...James commented that he never liked that song...I was floored...how could we think alike and he not like that song??!! Well, he's posted (many, many times!...well, maybe twice) one of his favorite songs of all time...maybe even his favorite song...Natalie Merchant (Beloved Wife)...I've tried (many, many times...more than twice) to listen to it. I rarely can make it through the entire song. I'm sure the lyrics are touching but her voice really annoys me...not my cup of tea. But it doesn't bother James and me...I just find it fascinating that we can agree on so many things and hear them the same and then be complete opposites on other things. I also like a lot of Country Music and some people here hate Country. That blows my mind because most of us here like 70's Pop and a lot of today's Country sounds like 70's Pop (to me). But that's OK with me. As long as we're respectful to each other, that's all that matters. It hasn't always been like that here. I like it better now...and I like you...you sound fun with your Enterprise truck...

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James   

Don't like "Beloved Wife"???????.......we're friends NO MORE Big D.
:)

P.S.   Kirk, I love talking Eric Carmen music, and it's obviously the heart and soul of this website.  I'm as big a fan as anybody.  But to me this website became more than just people gathering around to discuss Eric Carmen music. 

EC.Com became a group of friends, a community .  There is only so much we can write and discuss about Eric Carmen music.  Therefore, IMHO, for this community to stay tight we NEED to talk about other stuff...and talk about other stuff a lot.  Otherwise it dies here.

IMHO of course, and of course I know I'm not in sync with the heavy weights here on this one. 

P.P.S. The name Raspberries is better than say.... "The Apples", no?

:)
 

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MikeD   

I kinda like The Apples. Raspberries could have named an album "Jam". Truthfully, what's in a name? If it's great music, I'd buy it regardless of the band name. Recently read a great quote from a producer who stated, "The remedy for a poor production is a great song."

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adelia...that is definitely OK...I wouldn't dream of trying to change your Raspberries preference (as if I could)...I was just worried about offending anybody by saying anything negative about the Raspberries (the group, not the music). I love having these kinds of conversations, the give and take, the agreeing to disagree, etc...I love the music that I love and respect the music you love...I love what music means to each of us, even if it's different music for each of us. I also find it fascinating how we differ and I like talking about it. For example, James has always been one of my favorites here (don't get the big head, James...I have a lot of favorites)...anyway, James and I agree on a lot of things and on a lot of songs. We even agree that Boats Against The Current is our favorite EC song...we see eye to eye...we're in sync...we think alike...or so it seems. I once posted the video for Eddie Money's Take Me Home Tonight, which I love...James commented that he never liked that song...I was floored...how could we think alike and he not like that song??!! Well, he's posted (many, many times!...well, maybe twice) one of his favorite songs of all time...maybe even his favorite song...Natalie Merchant (Beloved Wife)...I've tried (many, many times...more than twice) to listen to it. I rarely can make it through the entire song. I'm sure the lyrics are touching but her voice really annoys me...not my cup of tea. But it doesn't bother James and me...I just find it fascinating that we can agree on so many things and hear them the same and then be complete opposites on other things. I also like a lot of Country Music and some people here hate Country. That blows my mind because most of us here like 70's Pop and a lot of today's Country sounds like 70's Pop (to me). But that's OK with me. As long as we're respectful to each other, that's all that matters. It hasn't always been like that here. I like it better now...and I like you...you sound fun with your Enterprise truck...

I learned a long long time ago that the best way to get along with people is to accept the fact that people all have their own ideas, opinions, taste etc. and those things should be accepted and respected. It is what makes us the individuals that we are. I have many tastes in music that I listen to (including country) and there are some that I'd rather have my teeth pulled without novocaine than have to listen to.

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Duane   
On 2/21/2014 at 7:09 AM, James said:

P.P.S. The name Raspberries is better than say.... "The Apples", no?

No...I say "Apples" for marketing purposes. The band's slogan could be "How Do You Like Them Apples" and they could put that on t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.

They could also use "An Apple A Day"..."Apple of My Eye"..."The Apple Doesn't Fall Far From The Tree"..."One Bad Apple"...etc., for album names, promotions, etc.

Just think of all the possibilities if they had hooked up with Steve Jobs and Apple Computers...

After Apple's success, maybe a rival band would have used the name Oranges and we'd write posts comparing Apples to Oranges... ;)

OK...I'll quit now...

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On 2/21/2014 at 1:09 AM, Kirk said:
Duane, something to consider when talking about the dynamic of Raspberries- Jim, Wally, and Dave were already performing together when Eric wanted to join them.  I imagine it would be a delicate transition from 'new guy' in the band to leader of the Raspberries- even if you had the most talent within the group.  That would seem to be a recipe for trouble right from the start.

Eric has always said he preferred to play in a band...I can only imagine what the next album of Raspberries music would have sounded like after 'Starting Over'.  We know it would have had ABM on it!

People,

Eric saw something in Wally, Jim and Dave which drew him in.  The other three guys recognized something - looks (that's me talking but that guy had such style and presence), talent, drive - which made the guys want him to be in the band. 

I was under the impression Eric became the leader as a natural progression of his personality and he thought of the name "Raspberries."  Not the fruit, but as a "forget you" to the music business trend at the time.  

Would like to know about how much approximate time it took for the new guy to become leader.

Cayenne

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