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marvin

Eric = Paul/Wally = Lennon?

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marvin   

Sometimes the critics who don't know Eric's music mistakingly paint him as a writer of only ballads. Far from the truth, as most of his 'berries output prove. Here is a thought that has always bugged me: During the course of the 'berries' career, I think part of Eric was the "Paul" and he needed Wally to be his "Lennon", i.e. also come to the plate with top-notch songs that could rival Eric. The healthy rivalry, I believe, would have pushed the band even higher.

Thoughts?

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MJ   

I agree with you on this one Marv - Eric needed an antagonist to help him with songwriting and move the band forward - Wally was certainly the Lennon of the two - he had a different style of writing - harder edged at times - but reflective at others - a good Yin-Yang partnership like all the other great songwriters in bands.

Oh and it's too bad someone doesn't give them both a SHOVE to write again someday :P

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first of all, I think that Eric has an exceptional gift at musical and melodic composition...this is not Wally's biggest forte...to put him in league with Lennon as a song writer is far from accurate...Wally's output was much less productive than Eric (from a volume perspective) ...but I think from a 'inspirational competitiveness" angle, Wally stoked Eric's creative fire AND he embellished it all and gave Eric's tunes an edge (like Lennon did) that Eric was not plugged into naturally. Eric hears symphonies, While Wally hears Rock and Roll and soul...the two combined makes for a great fit...in this sense, Wally was Eric's (Paul) Lennon...

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MJ   

How do we know what Wally's output was in songwriting - he could have a huge catalog of music now that has never seen the light of day - either because of what Eric wanted or the producer's wanted for a particular album..... I agree though Wally is a rocker - Eric is more of a classical kind of guy.

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marvin   

It's obvious that Eric wrote with a more melodic touch than Wally did, at least back then, but still we really have no idea how many songs Wally brought to the table. Back in the days when melodies got you on AM (and FM) radio, Eric had the inside track. As a songwriter, I think Eric definitely needed to be challenged, and I wonder if he was getting that in the band.

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You are right....not knowing the volume that Wally "may" have geneated...BUT...if we look at the "Refreshed" record, where no producers, nor Eric were in the picture...AND 30 yrs had passed since the Berries...Wally's two songs are no-more-than average really (maybe B-sides)....had he written a large volume or catalogue methinks the Wally-song-choices for Refreshed would have resulted in much better songs...

bah

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marvin   

In regard to "Refreshed", I don't think time and finances allowed for more than 2 tracks/songwriter. As for Wally's contributions to this disc, although I am indifferent to "Rock And Roll Kids", his "When Is Your Dream", in my opinion, is top-notch.

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MJ   

When Is Your Dream from Yellow Pills as well as the Refreshed version are always played in my car lol - I think both versions are great -

Marv - what is your take on his writing for the Sitting Ducks CD? I thought the songs were better than some of the more maudlin-depressing tunes that Eric has come out with.

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marvin   

There are a couple of Wally's tunes on the Sitting Ducks cd that are truly outstanding, in my opinion: "Let's Just Say Goodbye" and "Has Been Blues." At the soundcheck for the 1st reunion show, the few of us who were luck enough to be in the room, were treated to an outstanding Wally-only version of "Let's Just Say Goodbye."

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wally and eric is indeed a no brainer!! no disrespect to dave and jim.but..these are the guys that stick out in my mind as songwriters in the raspberries..even on erics last cd,on "i could really love you"..the collaberation is evident,the guitar,and the combo vocals are awesome!! it sent shivers up my spine when i heard that the first time,and still does..but.as a whole,as a band,noone can touch them! i love dave's songs too,but he is overshadowed by eric and wally,much like george was early in the beatles career..and we know how that turned out!! lets hope they will do it again in the studio,if not,that's okay,but i think it's gonna happen,if not,they are robbing the world of GOOD MUSIC and FUN MUSIC for todays world..god only knows we could use it,and the world..jmo..lol,chris

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JohnO   

"A much easier comparison:

Eric=Paul

Scott=John"

Very true....if there's one real tragedy about the band (other than the obvious fact that they were apart for 30 years), it's that the Eric-Scott (and Wally, for that matter) combo only did one record together.....

(For that matter, a case could be made that Wally=George.....in terms of playing the perfect, yet not that obvious, licks for each song. They're both much more melodic players than hot licks-oriented, and both eschew lengthy solos that add little to the song. On the other hand, I can't see Wally with a sitar......)

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marvin   
Raspbernie said:

A much easier comparison:

Eric=Paul

Scott=John

Definitely - but Wally played a bigger role in Eric's music career and life.

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MJ   

Daisy - I think I can answer for Marvin on this one - Wally has ALWAYS had a big role in Eric's musical career in life in that when they were still teenagers - Eric always admired Wally's playing and wanted to be in The Choir with Wally, Jim & Dave and had tried out but was unsuccessful, and had eventually lured Wally away from the Choir to play with Eric in Cyrus Erie...Eric's band which was very successful as a live band.... then when Jim & Eric started up a new band - the only guitarist that would "fit" and adapt to their sound was Wally....and Eric always acknowledged that fact. Their push and shove made some incredible music... and unfortunately the egos got the better of them and also destroyed the band the first time around. Let's just hope in time there will be more shows - then perhaps you could go to one and watch the interaction between the two that makes them so good together.

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marvin   

Thanks for the synoposis MJ. Daisy (is that actually your name?) I'm assuming that you've followed Eric's solo career more closely than his career with Raspberries, so hopefully this answers your questions.

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Thanks MJ for the synopsis of the band. It answers some of my questions.

Marvin, yes I have been following Eric's solo career more closely than his career with the Raspberries.

Don't Want To Say Goodbye was a very nice song. The version I just heard did not show them performing it but I heard the lovely piano playing and I am assuming that was Eric playing. I guess he was piano-ing it up even back in his Raspberries days. I wanted to hear Let's Just Say Goodbye and Has Been Blues as you spoke about but I could not find it.

As I watched The Raspberries I tried to figure out whether Eric liked playing music when he was on guitar or on the piano but I gave up.

Chris Hess mentioned collaboration on Eric's last CD "I could really love you" and I was surprised to read this because I always thought once a band broke up, they no longer worked together on anything. I wonder if he had any influence on Eric while Eric was devising ABM but my guess is no because inspiration came from another source.

Equally interesting is that some songwriters give their music to other musicians, possibly not wanting the work to go to waste. George McRae was given Rock Your Baby by KC and George made millions. KC gave it to him because he couldn't hit the hi notes. I don't know -- would I hand over millions to someone if I couldn't use the work myself? Good question, and I can't answer that because I'm not in that position. Maybe if it was a good friend of mine I might.

By the way Daisy is not my real name. You could call me by my middle name, Lynn, if you want to. :)

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If I remember my "Raspberries History" correctly, it has been stated that in the early days Wally and Eric hung out and wrote a lot... then Dave and Eric for a time... when Wally was hooked-up with female companionship... ;) and it seemed that whenever the band would finish up a tour, Dave and Wally both spent more time with partying and women while EC stayed holed up writing... so he'd bring 10 or 12 or 15 songs to the table while Dave and Wally might have 2 or 3 each... it was no wonder that Eric got most of the tracks...

And don't get me wrong; I flat out love Wally's rock stuff... I'm not so much a fan of his "Beatle-esque" stuff, but for songs like "Party's Over" or "Money Down" or "Golden Rule"... Wally rules...

I think too that a clear sign that Wally's catalog is not deep was that when "Refreshed" was being done, he did not bring two new songs to the table, rather re-hashed "When Is Your Dream"... one would think after all the years he'd have something new, if song-writing was really his passion...

(Obviously IMHO... I don't know the man himself; wish I did... but from an outside observer, it's an educated guess...)

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marvin   
Daisy McLintock said:

I wonder if he had any influence on Eric while Eric was devising ABM but my guess is no because inspiration came from another source.

"ABM" was definitely written during the life of Raspberries. Scott McCarl himself told me that he recalls Eric playing the song for the band.

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wally has an incredible collection as far as i'm concerened!! "last dance","might as well","partys over","dont wana say goodbye"(collaberation!)..the list goes on,as i'm sure the other guys would back up!! and for scott,what an incredible talent,singer,songwriter,person..sigh..just awesome talent overall!! lol,chris

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Hollies and Gman - how did you know this about Casey? I am interested in how you came across this info. I mean do you regularly visit the musical finance page, or something?

Definitely a piece of information well worth knowing.

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marvin said:

"ABM" was definitely written during the life of Raspberries. Scott McCarl himself told me that he recalls Eric playing the song for the band.

I'm flabbergasted. Is it safe to say that ABM took a little longer than I forethought?

Also, was Eric waiting for his solo career to release it, or did the song happen to be ready after the band broke up? Or he just presented it to the execs and they said ok let's make it a solo thing.

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