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marvin

The First Four Albums...Prove Me Wrong

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Fellas...A couple of thoughts...

Its hard to believe that the Beatles need to be defended, but here goes...This bands output for the first 4 albums is incredible when you consider the following factors...

1.) They did them all in a year...

2.) Many of them were recorded"live" or in a few takes...

3.) They were touring the world at the same time...

4.) They were making a movie...

(I dont blame them for the covers...When would they have time to write anymore than they did)

None of those bands had the same pressures or ""demands" on them...

And this whole Brian Wilson "genius" thing has got to stop...Albert Einstein was a genius not Brian Wilson...

If your gonna tell me that their greatest hits from the first 4 albums like, Surfin Safari, Be True To Your School, Fun, Fun, Fun, I Get Around, have the same emotional or creative impact on you now or then as I Want To Hold Your Hand, She Loves You and I Saw Her Standing There, go back and re-listen...Those early Beach Boy songs arent a pimple on the Beatles' ass...

There is not a song in the Brian Wilson/Mike Love/Van Dyke Parks catalogue that has the same creaive impact as Lennon or McCartney..

If you are gonna compare "Heroe's and Villans" or "Good Vibrations to "Strawberry Fields", "A Day In The Life" or "I Am THe Walrus", your kidding yourself...There is NOTHING in their songbook as grand as "Hey Jude" or Let It Be" and there certainly is not a song that the Frank Sinatras and the Tony Bennetts of 2050 would ever record such as "standards" like "Michelle, "Yesterday" and "And I Love Her"...Hell, I cant even think of a song of theirs that anybody would EVER cover other than idoltry purposes...If you are gonna tell me "In My Room" or Dont Worry Baby" or "God Only Knows" is on the same level, you have a long argument ahead of yourselves...

Lastly, I dont want to be condescending because I cannot do any better, but if you are gonna tell me that songs like, "Get It Moving", "Rock and Roll Mama, "Rose Colored Glasses", "With You In My Life", Makin It Easy" and any other Wally or Dave song make a album complete or balanced or competitive with a Beatles output, then you guys are just sugar coating the issue...90 % of Wally and Dave's songs are average , at best...There are some decently, good ones, but dont tell me that these songs can even be mentioned in competitive nature with Beatle songs/albums...Give me a Raspberries album with 10 Eric songs and let the comparisons begin, but please-STOP the baloney with Wally=Lennon unless you mean Sean or Yoko...

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'Please let Me Wonder'

'In My Room'

'Warmth Of The Sun'

'Let Him Run Wild'

'When I Grow Up To Be A Man'

'Kiss Me Baby'

'Good Vibrations'

'California Girls'

'Wild Honey'

'In The Back Of My Mind'

'All Summer Long'

'Surfs Up'

'Wouldn't It Be Nice'

'Breakaway'

'Don't Worry Baby'

'Disney Girls'

'Til I Die'

'Do it Again'

'Friends'

'The little Girl I Once Knew'

Those are some non hot rod & surf hits that match up with any Beatles songs. 'Grand ' would be in the eye of the beholder. The genius tag on Brian has been thrown around by George Martin and Paul McCartney, who both consider Brian just that...to this day. I love the Beatles,consider them 1st or 2nd greatest group ever...but...The Beach Boys are right there with them.IMO

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Maxwell's Silver Hammer

All Together Now

Yellow Submarine....not all Beatle songs are mind blowing classics. While I'm at it...'Sgt Pepper' would be in my bottom third of beatle albums. They're still fantastic, just sayin......

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JohnO   

IMO, The Byrds' first 4 LPs (Mr. Tambourine Man, Turn Turn Turn, 5D, and Younger Than Yesterday) are consistently better than the first 4 of any of the bands listed above, except for The Beatles. Yeah, there are some duff tracks, especially on "5D", but no worse than on the others' albums here, the Fab Four excluded....

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marvin   

Lew the points you make are certainly valid, i.e:

1.) They did them all in a year...

2.) Many of them were recorded"live" or in a few takes...

3.) They were touring the world at the same time...

4.) They were making a movie

...and the 'filler' material on the Beatles' first four albums is probably less than the others combined. I must disagree with your low evaluation of Brian.

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Nobody mentioned Springsteen's first four:

Greetings from Asbury Park

The Wild the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle

Born to Run

Darkness on the Edge of Town

I'll put those first four up against anybody's.

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marvin   
Early Wynn said:

Nobody mentioned Springsteen's first four:

Greetings from Asbury Park

The Wild the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle

Born to Run

Darkness on the Edge of Town

I'll put those first four up against anybody's.

I chose the Beatles, the Who, Kinks, Stones the Beach Boys, and Eagles, mainly because these groups are (arguably) the most successful UK and US bands. Certainly we could have added the Byrds, or Springsteen or countless other artists into the mix.

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Of course THe Beatles had some junk on their albums, everybody does, but looking at that list that Hollies posted only proves the point...There is no song there that is a standard...Can you picture any of those songs being recorded by the diverse stylists that have covered Yesterday?...

That list, while having some quality songs, dosent hold a candle to the Beatles "A" list...Of course, Mccartney says wonderful things about his friend/competitor...It would be totally boorish to badmouth Wilson...I dont see anything in that list that compares to the Beatles...

Marv, I dont have a low evaluation of Wilson.. Some really great songs, but sometimes we like to take the natural/obvious choice and beat it down...If we move this into the sports forum, its almost like saying Ted Williams was a better baseball player than Ruth...Ruth hit 714 homeruns, .338, lifetime average AND WON 94 games as a pitcher...Although Williams has reached some high water marks of his own, there's nobody that compares with Ruth's body of work...Or comparing Lemieux with Gretzky...Come on, Gretzky had 894 goals AND 1963 assists...It dosent compare...I look at that list and I dont see a "Hey Jude". "Yesterday", "Walrus", "She Loves You" and on and on...

Also, the genius thing gets thrown around way too much in society...If you invent a light bulb, maybe you can get that tag, but not "She's real fine my 409"...

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I would also suggest that it is a very bad idea to cover a Beach Boys song. Take 'The Warmth Of The Sun'...this song is as beautiful as anything The Beatles wrote...but if you cover it...it's going to pale next to the original.Big time. Plus the Beach boys songs...vocally are going to be mighty tough to sing. Frank would have had a mighty tough time with WOTS, While 'Something" for instance, is much easier vocally.

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marvin   

Lew you know I love the Beatles and especially McCartney's work. Speaking in general terms, I think that there are too many Beatles fans who don't realize how much Brian did with/for the Beach Boys. He was literally Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Starr, Martin and Emerick rolled into one package. Sure he wrote some songs with ridiculous lyrics (assuming he was the lyricist), but the body of work from 1965 to 1969 is truly incredible.

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marvin   
hollies65 said:

I would also suggest that it is a very bad idea to cover a Beach Boys song. Take 'The Warmth Of The Sun'...this song is as beautiful as anything The Beatles wrote...but if you cover it...it's going to pale next to the original.Big time. Plus the Beach boys songs...vocally are going to be mighty tough to sing. Frank would have had a mighty tough time with WOTS, While 'Something" for instance, is much easier vocally.

Further to this point, the BB's vocal arrangements were from another world. There must have been an incredible thought process that went into writing these arrangements.

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A great song is transcending and has a dexterity and adaptability that pemreates all styles...There is nothing in any Beach Boy song that lends itself to this...The melody lines on Beach Boy songs are no more or less challenging than Mccartney songs...

I dont see any Beach Boy song that will be chugging along 50 years from now...There isnt even one NOW that catches a singer's fancy...

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marvin   
Lew Bundles said:

...I dont see any Beach Boy song that will be chugging along 50 years from now...There isnt even one NOW that catches a singer's fancy...

Lew how would you compare the Beach Boys and Brian to the Sweet?

;)

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Marv...Your talking the difference between recordings and songs...A great recording with background singing, instrumentation enhance the recording, but the notes of the melody, which I consider the song, are what the song is...Anybody can go into the studio and create, coming up with the song is the task...God knows, the Beatles used the studio to their advantage...

Also Marv...I believe that there were collaberaters(sic) on Beach Boy songs and if his imput was so great, I believe they carried on well without him for a long time...

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