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Eric Carmen

"Live" CD Mixes

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Gene   

Oh my. Is the photography going to undergo scrutiny? Was the color temperature adjusted to give more natural skintones vs what would normally occur with the lighting in a concert environment? Did the photographer doctor the photos? Only the photog knows for sure who was really on stage playing the instruments... and if they were really playing them. Ok, maybe Dugie, Roadie #3, Rusty, Little Sis, and a few others know.

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Not to worry Gene. We just have the cameras that have the "red eye" removal feature. I don't think they have evolved to include retouches.

HT from Mo

By the way, how many AA prints do you have in your collection?

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marvin   

It wasn't so long ago when the authenticity of 'live' albums was questioned. There are a number of big-selling 'live' albums whose 'live-ness' remains debatable. I can recall seeing a VERY famous band in the 1970's and thinking that their sound was impeccable - for a live setting. A few months later I read in CIRCUS magazine that the same band was being accused of singing/playing to a tape. And that was in 1978!

Even today, with the technology that is available, 'live' albums are cleaned up in the studio. On the other hand, which fan actually wants to hear the 'warts and all' version"?

Marv

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JohnO   

A good friend of mine saw KISS at the Capital Center in the late 70's and Paul Stanley's guitar strap broke, causing his guitar to fall.....no racket, no crash, no nothing. It obviously wasn't plugged in, meaning that (1) they were using a tape, or (2) there was another guitarist "behind the curtain", playing his part live (another trick that's been used before).

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mannoman   

For those who attended the LA show (I had to sell my ticket - dammit) AND who think they know/remember what it sounded like, I will tell you that those on the right side of the stage had a different sound experience than those of you on the left side. The lucky ones where standing center stage near the soundboard. They heard what the soundman heard and mixed.

Where you stand (sit) makes a big difference. For example: for the first Cleveland show I was next to the soundboard and the audio was phenomenal. For the 2nd Cleveland show I was in the balcony and the high end sound was "screechy", so I went down stairs mid-way through the show (and in mid-song) the sound on the floor was richer and fuller. That was an eye opener and convinced me to stand on the floor, center stage in Chicago - it was absolutely awesome. Words cannot describe.

Thirdly, in Atlantic City - I know Eric said the monitors sounded excellent but I walked all over the hall and never found a good spot. On the floor/center stage the sound was bassy and when I moved to the overhang in the back of the hall the overall sound was flat.

My point is it doesn't matter what you heard because most of you didn't hear the same thing, even though you were all there at the same time. So, post production is a non-issue from a "what I heard" perspective.

I can assure you all bands 'post' their live performances. I for one can't wait - 'post' away guys.

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mellie   
mannoman said:

For those who attended the LA show (I had to sell my ticket - dammit) ...

and a thousand thank-yous, Ted! Although it would have been more fun with you there. :)

I have to agree about the sound being different depending on where you're standing. When I saw the Raspberries at the Shrine Mosque in Springfield, MO in '73, I was originally standing (appropriately) on second row in front of Dave. :cool: The music was way to loud for my ears, so I moved back to the center of the room and couldn't hear a thing. At the back I could hear, but it was a hollow sound, so I went to the balcony. It was amazing up there! The sound was so rich, the acoustics were perfect. I really thought they sounded better than on vinyl. The saracenic architectural design probably had something to do with the sound being better in the balcony that night.

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Kirk   

Anybody else have to look up saracenic :) For the L.A. show, I was standing right in front of Wally's amp (can you hear me now?). Late in the show, possibly during the encores, one of the guitars on the opposite side of the stage (not Dave's) sounded waaaay out of tune. I don't know if it was just my position in the room, or if my ears (what were left of them) were playing tricks on me. Would be interested to hear from Eric- if that was indeed the case, could something like that be 'tinkered' enough to be 'on key'- Kirk.

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aggiesjc   

Kirk, didn't you have ringing in your ears long after the LA show? How are they now? Back to normal one year later? I had earplugs in, and still thought it was really loud from where we were standing.

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Having just mixed each and every song, I can tell you that there were not any tuning problems. There may have been a wrong note here and there, but nothing extraordinary. If you were standing in front of Wally, what you MIGHT have heard is Paul's keys sticking during one part of "I Can Remember" causing a pretty weird couple of chords for a few seconds. We had to dip one spot in the mix but you can still hear it. Paul had problems all night after the shaker exploded and the beans inside it lodged between his keys. ec

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Kirk   

That's a relief to know it was just my ears (brain?) playing tricks on me. I had been meaning to ask about that for awhile, but wanted to wait until the mixes were in before I did. I wasn't aware of the shaker incident at the time, and was so pumped by the bands performance, if I heard a missed note or a sticking chord I don't remember it. I thought you guys were close to perfection! I have to confess to having this little voice whispering in my ear  "please don't let anything go wrong tonight"  , and, after the video, nothing did. Knowing that there were no tuning issues just makes me that much more pumped for the cd! Thanks! Kirk.

Jen- Still hearing from Wally's guitar. Not too bad, though.

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Kirk   

Billy--Very gently delivered, thank you! In fact, I'm the one who should apologize. You're a cool guy as well as a great musician. You know, you go through life trusting your ears (and mine have always been very sensitive to pitch); somehow, someway, by the end of the L.A. show they were not ringing true (pun intended)! The only thing I can compare it to is like a passing train horn that seemingly changes pitch as it goes by. That's how much I was affected by the end of the night. I'm really glad it was just me. Next show, I'll buy you a beer! Thanks--Kirk.

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sllvnbil   

Hey Kirk, Without sounding too much like a jerk,, and please forgive me if I do come off that way,, but,, I assure you that my guitar was in tune in LA during the encores!

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Kirk   

SSLD--Very astute observation. The addition of the superlative musicians, known to us as the overdubs, gave the concerts all of the musical and vocal nuances that were on the records- multiplied by the dynamic sound of the live concert. Blew me away (literally)!--Kirk.

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Kirk   

Susan, that's an affectionate nickname for those very hard working and talented musicians. I'm not sure who first coined the phrase, but I'm fairly certain it was someone in the band. The rest of us just picked it up after that. Maybe someone else here can remember. Kirk.

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When bands record in the studio, they start out by recording what we call "the basic track." For us, that would be Wally and I on guitar, Dave on bass and Jim on drums. Everything you record afterward is called and "overdub." Since many of the parts Billy, Paul and Jennifer play onstage were "overdubs" we thought that would be a good way to refer to them. I think Jim came up with it first. ec

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Jeff   
marvin said:

It wasn't so long ago when the authenticity of 'live' albums was questioned. There are a number of big-selling 'live' albums whose 'live-ness' remains debatable. I can recall seeing a VERY famous band in the 1970's and thinking that their sound was impeccable - for a live setting. A few months later I read in CIRCUS magazine that the same band was being accused of singing/playing to a tape. And that was in 1978!

Without naming exact names, would that have been one of the "Light Orchestras" ? :lol::lol:

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marvin   

Jeff I only have one thing to say to you: "Bingo!"

Do you want to take a guess as to the 'live' albums whose authenticity has been questioned?

Marv

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OK, I know KISS has stated that most everything on "Alive" was rerecorded in the studio.

Eagles "Live" was also known to be heavily overdubbed.

I also heard a rumour that "Frampton Comes Alive" was doctored with. But I can't remember if it had something to do with "tweaking" the sound of the audience.

Jeff

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Jeff   
marvin said:

Jeff I only have one thing to say to you: "Bingo!"

Do you want to take a guess as to the 'live' albums whose authenticity has been questioned?

OK, the obvious joke ... Milli Vanilli Live at the ..... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Cozmik   
Jeff said:

Without naming exact names, would that have been one of the "Light Orchestras" ?

There have been a few live ELO CD's that have been released. I don't think a lot of post-concert work was done with these because they were just put out by the record company without the band's participation.

"The Night the Lights Went On (In Long Beach)" from 1974 captures the band before the band really hit it big and sounds very live. And they sound like a great live band.

"Live at Winterland '76" sounds very live as well. similar to the one above.

"Out of the Blue: Live at Wembley" - Oh boy. I saw ELO on this 1978 tour at Cleveland Stadium with Foreigner and Journey. They were at the height of their popularity and had the big saucer stage show. This "live" album clearly shows they're miming to the original studio versions or singing over pre-recorded backing tracks. This "live" album is a joke.

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marvin   

ELO was definitely the band that CIRCUS reported as being accused of singing to tape. As I mentioned, this was an issue from 1978, and reflected a tour that I had seen in Montreal around the same time.

As far as 'live' albums whose authenticity has been questioned, some of you have mentioned the big ones already.

Marv

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